Originally posted by carver9One thing i like about you carver is the fact that you ALWAYS have ON PANEL proof to back you up, while those that debate ( well, try to at least ) you NEVER have proof, but what they think.. By the way... Nice OWNING of that person in that other thread.. But next time please allow me to do it to the next person 😆
Like I said, Rachel is one of the most powerful TPs in Marvel and he resisted her... Martian isnt doing anything to Glad and the only thing that the martian is going to do is piss Gladiator off which is going to lead to this happening to the opposing team.http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-021.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-022.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-023.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-024.jpgHere is your proof.
Would you like some more?
Originally posted by MONSTAR
One thing i like about you carver is the fact that you ALWAYS have ON PANEL proof to back you up, while those that debate ( well, try to at least ) you NEVER have proof, but what they think.. By the way... Nice OWNING of that person in that other thread.. But next time please allow me to do it to the next person 😆
LOL... 😆 deal.
Originally posted by carver9
Like I said, Rachel is one of the most powerful TPs in Marvel and he resisted her... Martian isnt doing anything to Glad and the only thing that the martian is going to do is piss Gladiator off which is going to lead to this happening to the opposing team.http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-021.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-022.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-023.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-024.jpgHere is your proof.
Would you like some more?
So it looks like it WOULD work, just not indefinitely.
And what has this version of Rachel accomplished? The version at this power level, since Rachel of course has vacillated drastically.
Originally posted by Desaad
So it looks like it WOULD work, just not indefinitely.And what has this version of Rachel accomplished? The version at this power level, since Rachel of course has vacillated drastically.
Lately rachel has been train by emma frost and has been classified as having a tp level far above xavier. During that time she was successfully finished with her training with emma. She has matched emma and even mind raped her once. She is powerful, very powerful... poweful enough to fool xavier with her tp.
It momentarily worked on glads but not to the extent that you all were talking about. I think one punch from someone would wake him up and a tp attack will not work for the second time.
He resisted her and that is what I was proving.
Originally posted by MONSTAR
[B]That goes both ways. No one on the JLA can fight at light speed but the flash. You are making it to fit your reason for the JLA to win.
The Flash is faster, in combat speed, than the Gladiator has shown himself. And he's more consistent in using it. There isn't any argument -- especially THIS version of the Flash, the version who had mastered speed tricks and infinite mass punches.
Superman has indisputably fought at speeds faster than anyone on the Annihilation team, save for Gladiator, who arguably matches (though even more rarely).
Wonder Woman, too.
Green Lanterns have as many, if not more, showings of combat super speed as someone like the Silver Surfer.
The speed advantage is indisputably on the side of the JLA. And yet you'd go so far as count it as an advantage for the Annihilation team? Absurd.
Surfer has cosmic awareness, everyone knows this. But you go off of a ( might ) for MM to help him??
Because Surfer has never used cosmic awareness like that in a battle situation. Martian Manhunter HAS used his telepathy against totally unfamiliar foes, adapting his form into something particularly effective against them.
You see the difference? Yours is absolute speculation and extrapolation. Mine is grounded in showings.
Then you bring up god wave for WW?? Yet you scorn others for bring up hyperspace for gladiator????..
I don't 'scorn' others, I'm playing by rules that I think are useless and counterproductive, but that you obviously revel in.
You take one example of the Gladiator fighting at super speed, in a situation that cannot be replicated (time diliation) and you ignore the myriad times that he's fought foes without super speed and never bothered to speed up, despite it meaning that he loses. And you point to your rules about CIS and PIS and whatever other abbreviations you might have.
Well that's fine, I guess. We can all play that way. And under those rules, there is no reason that Wonder Woman isn't going to tap into the godwave. There is no reason that Superman isn't going to go take a quick sundip (something that he's done multiple times). There is no reason that Kyle isn't going to wrap everyone up in straight jackets that turn kinetic energy into music. There is no reason that Wally isn't going to steal everyone's speed, travel through time and smother them all in their alien hover cribs with hands of near infinite mass. There is no reason that Batman isn't going...do whatever the hell he wants, including coming through multiple artificial realities or defeat hyper adapters that use weaponized time to kill and maim. There is no reason that any of those who still have a biology won't die, wracked with terrible seizures as Aquaman crushes that part of their brain that was once aquatic. There is no reason that Zauriel wont discard his taudry flesh suit and manifest in full glory, a form in which he has the ability to turn back time and re-write reality. There is no reason that Plastic Man won't become his indestructible, Fernus-wrestling self. There is no reason that Martian Manhunter won't rip from them their minds, won't phase directly into their intestines or phase THEM into matter.
I find those rules insane, I find those rules counter to the whole spirit of these debates. But if you want to talk about what 'could' happen, we can go all day, back and forth, back and forth.
Originally posted by carver9
Lately rachel has been train by emma frost and has been classified as having a tp level far above xavier.
Reference? I never saw any evidence of that in any of the Kingbreaker mini series', or in the Brubaker arcs that preceded it.
During that time she was successfully finished with her training with emma. She has matched emma and even mind raped her once. She is powerful, very powerful... poweful enough to fool xavier with her tp.
Fooling Xaiver with TP isn't as difficult as one might think. Even an early Emma was able to do just that in one issue, while the Emma from the same era was telepathically resisted by that skater from the New Warriors, totally human level (Night Thrasher).
It momentarily worked on glads but not to the extent that you all were talking about. I think one punch from someone would wake him up and a tp attack will not work for the second time.
It worked on Glads because he was able to logically suss out what was going on, but he has no idea what the deal with Martian Manhunter is. He also wasn't being attacked on two levels, the way Martian Manhunter would be capable of attack.
He resisted her and that is what I was proving.
but it doesn't prove that 'it wouldn't work on him'. It WOULD work on him, demonstrated by that showing (by a telepath of unproven power) and the Cassandra Nova's showing. It's the degree to which it would work, the length of time, that is in doubt.
Originally posted by Desaad
The Flash is faster, in combat speed, than the Gladiator has shown himself. And he's more consistent in using it. There isn't any argument -- especially THIS version of the Flash, the version who had mastered speed tricks and infinite mass punches.Superman has indisputably fought at speeds faster than anyone on the Annihilation team, save for Gladiator, who arguably matches (though even more rarely).
Wonder Woman, too.
Green Lanterns have as many, if not more, showings of combat super speed as someone like the Silver Surfer.
The speed advantage is indisputably on the side of the JLA. And yet you'd go so far as count it as an advantage for the Annihilation team? Absurd.
Because Surfer has never used cosmic awareness like that in a battle situation. Martian Manhunter HAS used his telepathy against totally unfamiliar foes, adapting his form into something particularly effective against them.
You see the difference? Yours is absolute speculation and extrapolation. Mine is grounded in showings.
I don't 'scorn' others, I'm playing by rules that I think are useless and counterproductive, but that you obviously revel in.
You take one example of the Gladiator fighting at super speed, in a situation that cannot be replicated (time diliation) and you ignore the myriad times that he's fought foes without super speed and never bothered to speed up, despite it meaning that he loses. And you point to your rules about CIS and PIS and whatever other abbreviations you might have.
Well that's fine, I guess. We can all play that way. And under those rules, there is no reason that Wonder Woman isn't going to tap into the godwave. There is no reason that Superman isn't going to go take a quick sundip (something that he's done multiple times). There is no reason that Kyle isn't going to wrap everyone up in straight jackets that turn kinetic energy into music. There is no reason that Wally isn't going to steal everyone's speed, travel through time and smother them all in their alien hover cribs with hands of near infinite mass. There is no reason that Batman isn't going...do whatever the hell he wants, including coming through multiple artificial realities or defeat hyper adapters that use weaponized time to kill and maim. There is no reason that any of those who still have a biology won't die, wracked with terrible seizures as Aquaman crushes that part of their brain that was once aquatic. There is no reason that Zauriel wont discard his taudry flesh suit and manifest in full glory, a form in which he has the ability to turn back time and re-write reality. There is no reason that Plastic Man won't become his indestructible, Fernus-wrestling self. There is no reason that Martian Manhunter won't rip from them their minds, won't phase directly into their intestines or phase THEM into matter.
I find those rules insane, I find those rules counter to the whole spirit of these debates. But if you want to talk about what 'could' happen, we can go all day, back and forth, back and forth.
You do know that surfer can amp his team mates right? He has shown this during a time him and glads were teamed up.
Originally posted by Desaad
Reference? I never saw any evidence of that in any of the Kingbreaker mini series', or in the Brubaker arcs that preceded it.Fooling Xaiver with TP isn't as difficult as one might think. Even an early Emma was able to do just that in one issue, while the Emma from the same era was telepathically resisted by that skater from the New Warriors, totally human level (Night Thrasher).
It worked on Glads because he was able to logically suss out what was going on, but he has no idea what the deal with Martian Manhunter is. He also wasn't being attacked on two levels, the way Martian Manhunter would be capable of attack.
but it doesn't prove that 'it wouldn't work on him'. It WOULD work on him, demonstrated by that showing (by a telepath of unproven power) and the Cassandra Nova's showing. It's the degree to which it would work, the length of time, that is in doubt.
Any tp attack would work for a short amount of time against someone with any type of resistance. What is the martian going to do after this assault, punch him? Any type of assault towards gladiator will break him out of this and if anything piss him off.
Remember, everyone has basic knowledge of each character, with that said, gladiator will know that mm is a telepath and will probably go for him right off the bat with a high dosage of heat vision or planetary punches. Gladiator is faster than martian, stronger, more durable and far more powerful. Hell, he could basically shoot a cosmic blast out of his chest and ko the martian or temporarily stun him.
Originally posted by carver9
Mind sap doesn't work on glads, he is resistant to it. Rachel, one of the best tp users in marvel tried this and got blitzed.
No. Rachel is not one of the best tp users in marvel. She got mindraped by vulcan... and he's an energy manipulator... not a telepath. She has potential. That has been established, but as far as being on MM level, no.
That wasn't a mindrape. It was an illusion. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about j'onn sapping his confidence. He's done a lot worse to far better.
Originally posted by carver9
You do know that surfer can amp his team mates right? He has shown this during a time him and glads were teamed up.
Amping others decreases his own powers, as it did during the "Enslavers" graphic novel/arc.
Green Lanterns have shown the ability to give others abilities, too, actually, and without losing their own. They've also shown the ability to replicate their rings and temporarily deputize others -- like Kyle did during "The New Corps", or Hal did with Wally West when he lost his powers or Ollie Queen "just in case".
If that is the kind of absurd game you want to play, you're going to lose, hard.
You can see why I think this whole idea of conceptual one upsmanship is counter productive, and way less fun than just using 'standard portrayals'.
Wally West destroyed the god damn ANTI MONITOR on his own, right around the Morrison JLA era. The Anti Monitor. He went back to Pre-Crisis time at will and under his own power, moved at such speeds that he was invisible to PRE-CRISIS speedsters like Superman, Barry Allen and Captain Marvel, and single handidly took apart the final form Anti Monitor.
When you've got a showing like that, and you demand that every character is at his absolute best, what is one to do? It's insane. It's absurd.
