Annhilators vs Morrison JLA

Started by MONSTAR29 pages

Originally posted by iceman24567
Except like I said they can amp their strength threw will or their mood its why Superman is called to do the impossible threw sheer will his strength becomes greater than his norm and Thor has many instances of his strength increasing because hes pissed 😐
No they do not. They cannot amp their strength like hulk or gladiator. Any hero can push themselves to the limit to get a little stronger, and i mean a little stronger. Hulk or gladiator goes far beyond a little stronger. Thor and superman have a cap on their strength.. its been seen many times, but they both can get outside help to get stronger, when Kurse was mauling thor, what did he do? will himself stronger or grab his belt of strength? When superman had to move war world, did he get angry or will himself stronger, or did he sun amp? (Thanks again babe)

Originally posted by MONSTAR
If superman or thor can get stronger by anger or willpower alone, what is the use of sundipping or warrior madness then? Why does superman sundip? To get stronger. Neither one of them can amp their strength by their state of mind.. They dont have hulks powerset nor gladiators.. Gladiator does not need to sundip, go into warrior madness or put on a belt of strength to get stronger, neither does hulk. ( THANKS BABE )

Superman's strength can be amped by his mental state, as he holds back so much that when he gets angry, he does tend to get stronger.

A sundip is an astronomical amp, moreso than any dynamic strength his body can normally produce.

Originally posted by MONSTAR
No they do not. They cannot amp their strength like hulk or gladiator. Any hero can push themselves to the limit to get a little stronger, and i mean a little stronger. Hulk or gladiator goes far beyond a little stronger. Thor and superman have a cap on their strength.. its been seen many times, but they both can get outside help to get stronger, when Kurse was mauling thor, what did he do? will himself stronger or grab his belt of strength? When superman had to move war world, did he get angry or will himself stronger, or did he sun amp? (Thanks again babe)

he didn't sunamp to move warworld.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman's strength can be amped by his mental state, as he holds back so much that when he gets angry, he does tend to get stronger.

A sundip is an astronomical amp, moreso than any dynamic strength his body can normally produce.

He does not get stronger. He just use more of his strength. My boyfriend and i wrestle all the time, he holds back and it appear that we are equal, but when he gets tired of me, he use more strength and pins me.. Thats the same with superman and thor, they hold back to keep from hurting normal people, but against people like black adam, kurse or hulk, the have cut loose yet never got any stronger than they are at peak.

Originally posted by MONSTAR
He does not get stronger. He just use more of his strength. My boyfriend and i wrestle all the time, he holds back and it appear that we are equal, but when he gets tired of me, he use more strength and pins me.. Thats the same with superman and thor, they hold back to keep from hurting normal people, but against people like black adam, kurse or hulk, the have cut loose yet never got any stronger than they are at peak.

Except Superman has no defined upper level of strength and he blocks his own strength in a subconsious level.

Originally posted by MONSTAR
He does not get stronger. He just use more of his strength. My boyfriend and i wrestle all the time, he holds back and it appear that we are equal, but when he gets tired of me, he use more strength and pins me.. Thats the same with superman and thor, they hold back to keep from hurting normal people, but against people like black adam, kurse or hulk, the have cut loose yet never got any stronger than they are at peak.

it's both. they're not mutually exclusive.

and superman doesn't have to cut loose against anyone on his level, but when he does, he does get more powerful, and leaves several of them far behind.

Originally posted by Bentley
Except Superman has no defined upper level of strength and he blocks his own strength in a subconsious level.
Yes he does. If he had no defined upper level of strength, then how can he get stronger by sundipping? If he blocks his strength on a subconsious level, then sundipping must override the mental blocks?

Originally posted by -Pr-
it's both. they're not mutually exclusive.

and superman doesn't have to cut loose against anyone on his level, but when he does, he does get more powerful, and leaves several of them far behind.

He has never left black adam, WW, CM or anyone on his level behind because he cuts loose because they can cut loose too.

Originally posted by MONSTAR
Yes he does. If he had no defined upper level of strength, then how can he get stronger by sundipping? If he blocks his strength on a subconsious level, then sundipping must override the mental blocks?

Well, it's undefined, how should I know? awesr

Originally posted by Bentley
Well, it's undefined, how should I know? awesr
KC superman is stronger than current superman. Allstar superman is 3 times stronger... It is defined 😉

Originally posted by MONSTAR
KC superman is stronger than current superman. Allstar superman is 3 times stronger... It is defined 😉

Undefined isn't the same as limitless.

All-Star isn't three times stronger.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Undefined isn't the same as limitless.

All-Star isn't three times stronger.

This is my point. If he has to sundipp to get stronger, then he has to have a cap on his normal strength. If he is weaker than allstar, KC, pre-crisis etc, then he has a cap on his strength. He is in the class of CM, WW, I believe Adam to be stronger and all of them have a cap. current superman is the weakest version.

Goodnite pr.. We will finish this after i get my hair done this evening.

Originally posted by MONSTAR
This is my point. If he has to sundipp to get stronger, then he has to have a cap on his normal strength. If he is weaker than allstar, KC, pre-crisis etc, then he has a cap on his strength. He is in the class of CM, WW, I believe Adam to be stronger and all of them have a cap. current superman is the weakest version.

Nobody said he had no cap on his strength. They said he doesn't have a known cap, which he doesn't.

him being weaker than all-star is rumour and opinion; and if you believe that, fine, but it's not conclusive.

Wait a darn minute.. Supes is allowed a sun amp for this battle??
I may go JLA on this if he does. Sun amped supes may be too much..

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wait a darn minute.. Supes is allowed a sun amp for this battle??
I may go JLA on this if he does. Sun amped supes may be too much..

He is? so are others allowed to amp aswell?

Anyway I see the Annihilators taking this and countering most things that the JLA can throw at them

He's not allowed to sundip, no.

Originally posted by MONSTAR
Look desaad, i know you like superman

I don't like Superman, actually.

Originally posted by Desaad
I don't like Superman, actually.

Yes you do 😉

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Which is irrelevant in THIS debate. Yes, I believe that there was a link between Superman/Zod. It was heavily implied to by the story.

I'm asking you for EVIDENCE of this. Because I'm reading it as a literary device, one that is used COMMONLY, where as you're reading it as a scientific/quasi-mystical connection between two beings and a physical world. Fine, but shouldn't that have been spelled out somewhere? How is it more likely that something like that exists than simple creative description of a fight?

But for the purposes of this thread, I DID mention that the ambiguity of the feat DOES NOT PROVE IN ANY WAY the argument presented by the Superman camp.

You admit the ambiguity of the feat when it's brought to your attention. But you specifically refute the idea all across these boards unless someone actually familiar with it brings it up.

That's biased, and dishonest. Which would have been fine with me, frankly, if you didn't start this conversation with accusing me of the same. At the very least, I'm presenting the ambiguous nature of both feats in full.

Your statement of "present definitive proof of X occuring EXACTLY as you say it" is not a refutation but a transfer of burden of proof. Place YOUR interpretation of what the feat was and present YOUR proof?

Your interpretation requires numerous special dispensations of logic; mine is taken at base level.

They never mention any special connection between the characters and a physical planet, so there is none. They never show that Gladiator has the ability to contain giant energy blasts, so he didn't.

Your interpretation requires the invention of powers, of special and strange and never hinted at connections. Mine, via occams razor, are the more likely. But NEITHER are definitive, and I'm fine with that.

The scans themselves heavily imply it:

"As our skin splits, so does the Earth..."

"Tectonic plates roil under a hide of jaundiced leather", comes from a famous story describing Mongul fighting Superman. Am I to take it literally that Mongul is composed of tectonic plates and jaundiced leather?

I'm asking for some genuine evidence that they are connected, scientifically. It's such an out there concept that it shouldn't be something that was left to the audience to assume; you can see that, right? It requires all manner of logical stretching and reaching, where as my interpretation is simple and basic and requires nothing special.

"For one thing, Johnny, that explosion would have annihilated half the solar system--unless it was somehow deliberately contained"

There exists evidence that seems to imply a certain truth in our interpretations. You need to present proof that:

1) Superman and Zod WERE indeed directly destroying the planet via the force of their blows against each other alone.
2) Some OTHER force other than Gladiator would have tried to contain the blast.

No, I don't. My interpretations are the simpler interpretations, the interpretations that require less invention of outside circumstance or individual super power.

Characters have been shown to "contain explosions" by physical means without the need to add in another power unique to that situation. Hulk thunderclap and Superman containing black holes, anyone?

Superman wouldn't be able to hold a black hole unless it was already compressed to the size of his palms. He's not going up to a sun and holding it in his hands, is he? Gladiator was CAUGHT in the explosion, he would have had to create some sort of GL-like force field around the blast to contain it. It's an ability he's never shown before.

The problem is your "face value" seems to be: "whatever interpretation suits my argument/side regardless of evidence since it is YOUR job to present it and not mine".

That, sir, is bias.

No, it only appears that way to YOU because you're on the OTHER side.

Here's the difference between us -- from the beginning, I've admitted, and even gone so far as to explain how the two feats in question are ambiguous, and open to multiple interpretation, then elected my own based on what I feel is the simpler, less desperate interpretation.

You and yours didn't feel the need to bring up any of that ambiguity until it was thrown in your face, by me, instead pretending that your interpretations were the only valid ones. That's dishonest. That's bias.

Why did you choose only to respond to me, to address my point, rather than say to someone on your side "Hey, actually, while I think you're right it could definitely be interpreted...?"

I've seen you on this thread or another, I honestly dont' know which, outright dismiss the idea that Superman and Zod battling could have been a literal destruction of the planet. "Carver already proved that, lol ur stpid!". Where was your even handed fairness then?

Originally posted by Bentley
Yes you do 😉

Nope.

I've got my favorite characters, certainly. None of them are a part of this thread.