Wonder Woman Vs Quasar

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Here's a scan of Quasar (again, these scans are pretty damn old) Deflecting mjolnir with a HASTILY ERECTED shield, THEN encasing mjolnir inside a force shield.

here

It takes "all Thor's strength" to break the shield and get mjolnir out.

and here

You'd be hard pressed to find a more powerful magical artifact than mjolnir in the MU, so clearly, Vaughn's weakness against magic isn't absolute.

A) Thor was holding back "You're lucky I know you're not responsible for your own actions"

B) He was straining to break it true. But not only did he break it, he was in a rush because in 60 seconds he'd turn mortal.

you missed the point of the scan. First, Vaughn's bands are restraining modred the mystic. If his powers didn't work on magic, modred wouldn't have been restrained in the first place. they were only broken when quasar's focus/powers weakened.

SECOND, Quasar is clearly draining and redirecting phoenix force energy. It may not be magic, but it's at MINIMUM an assload of psionic power (since rachel is a tp/tk) and at worst abstract force. It has nothing to do with EM energy, and yet vaughn is shielding himself from it and controlling it.

Quasar can control non EM energy. deal with it. and here [/B]

Mordred's body isn't made of magic. He's a sorcerer. Just like you can entangle Dr. Strange you can bind Mordred. Mordred has superhuman strength though. So that's why he even had a chance of breaking the weaken Quantum constructs.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
SECOND, Quasar is clearly draining and redirecting phoenix force energy. It may not be magic, but it's at MINIMUM an assload of psionic power (since rachel is a tp/tk) and at worst abstract force. It has nothing to do with EM energy, and yet vaughn is shielding himself from it and controlling it.

Quasar can control non EM energy. deal with it.

Then why has he REPEATEDLY said he couldn't?! Rachel was clearly directing energy at him. That energy must have been within the EM spectrum or else she'd pull a Darkstar on him.

Now, I'm not claiming Quasar has no magical weakness whatsoever. that would be stupid, since it's been stated elsewhere. but clearly it's not an "instant win" for a magical opponent. Offensively his powers WILL work against magical items and opponents, and defensively his constructs will hold up to a point. they're just less effective.

Since it's been shown in this thread that quasar can hold off mjolnir not once but at least twice versus thor, he's not going to have any issues with wonder woman's items.

Of course he has a magic weakness. In that every issue you posted scans from, Quasar tells Thor "he's helpless" vs magic. Post the scan since you seem to have the issue.

And Thor wasn't going all out, it was Quasar that "didn't want to take a chance vs an opponent as powerful as Thor".

Originally posted by zopzop
Then why has he REPEATEDLY said he couldn't?! Rachel was clearly directing energy at him. That energy must have been within the EM spectrum or else she'd pull a Darkstar on him.

dude, read your scan again. Quasar said that "darkforce energy" is one of the few things he can't manipulate. SPECIFICALLY darkforce energy. That in no way means he's vulnerable to all non EM energy, it means he's vulnerable to darkforce. there's only a handful of users of that stuff in the MU, and of those that do (Cloak comes to mind) Their powers have been specifically shown to have adverse affects on anyone using light based powers. Hell, cloak eats up dagger's light based attacks for food.

on the Flip side, we have Quasar easily deflecting phoenix force energy, and draining and using the power cosmic for his own uses. Neither one is EM and it's insane to try to claim they are.

Of course he has a magic weakness. In that every issue you posted scans from, Quasar tells Thor "he's helpless" vs magic. Post the scan since you seem to have the issue.

the irony of saying one is "helpless" against magic while deflecting and imprisoning mjolnir on the same page seems to have escaped you.

And Thor wasn't going all out, it was Quasar that "didn't want to take a chance vs an opponent as powerful as Thor". [/B]

They're both heroes. obviously neither one is going to be going "all out." but was Thor "holding back" when trying to KO Thanos with his hammer in this scan?

Quasar doesn't seem to have any problems or concerns with Thor and everyone else pounding on it. here.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
dude, read your scan again. Quasar said that "darkforce energy" is one of the few things he can't manipulate. SPECIFICALLY darkforce energy. That in no way means he's vulnerable to all non EM energy, it means he's vulnerable to [b]darkforce. there's only a handful of users of that stuff in the MU, and of those that do (Cloak comes to mind) Their powers have been specifically shown to have adverse affects on anyone using light based powers. Hell, cloak eats up dagger's light based attacks for food.

on the Flip side, we have Quasar easily deflecting phoenix force energy, and draining and using the power cosmic for his own uses. Neither one is EM and it's insane to try to claim they are.

What is the PF energy? Do you know? What did the writers think it was and the Power Cosmic? They must have seen it as something within the EM spectrum otherwise he'd have no power over it. Anyone who read the series remembers Quasar repeating his powerlessness over none EM energy.

the irony of saying one is "helpless" against magic while deflecting and imprisoning mjolnir on the same page seems to have escaped you.

Thor was holding back. Did you even read the damn scan? This is getting annoying.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Quasar : I'm useless vs magic.

Quasar doesn't seem to have any problems or concerns with Thor and everyone else pounding on it. here.

But Dr. Spectrum, Darkstar, and Half Life break right through with no problems. Later, either in that same issue or a continuation, Quasar put some sort of Quantum cage over Warlock's head because of the Karmic blasts from the Soul Gem. Warlock burned a hole right through it.

Originally posted by zopzop
What is the PF energy? Do you know?

Rachel grey's power is cosmic/psionic. The phoenix force is the life energy of all beings that will potentially exist in the universe. There isn't really a limit to what it can do, much like the power cosmic. It tends to do whatever the plot calls for. Implying it's somehow the same nature as radio waves or visible light is nonsense.

What did the writers think it was and the Power Cosmic? They must have seen it as something within the EM spectrum otherwise he'd have no power over it.

Again, it's obvious to everyone whose ever picked up a comic that neither the PC nor the Phoenix force is EM and the writers know this. Quasar is also immune to psionics, and THAT's obviously not EM either. I've also posted scans of Quasar draining power from Beta Ray Bill, Gladiator, Major Victory, Nova, and Namorita to reinforce his constructs- at least TWO of these have psionic based abilities (MV, possibly gladiator) and BRB's powers are magical in orgin, like thors.

Anyone who read the series remembers Quasar repeating his powerlessness over none EM energy.

and yet you've yet to post ANY scans of quasar saying this, only that he can't control darkforce, the reasons for which should be obvious. Darkforce drains energy from this dimension like a sponge. Anyone who sets foot in the darkforce dimension will be drained of all their life energy, EM based or not. The reasons why quasar's powers don't work on darkforce are obvious. Again, because I seem to have to spell it out, just because quasar's powers do not work versus ONE TYPE of non-em energy does not mean it doesn't work against ALL of them, and there are a LOT. Darkforce ESPECIALLY is a special case as it is not native to the 616 dimension.

Thor was holding back. Did you even read the damn scan? This is getting annoying.

Was thor holding back when Trying to KO thanos? Why? And again Quasar's shields had no problem deflecting Mjolnir there, and it's implied thor and the rest of those heroes continued to attack it.

Quasar : I'm useless vs magic.

I'll spell it out for you. Mjolnir is a magic item. If Quasar was completely useless versus magic, mjolnir would have gone through his constructs like glass- or if you prefer, like darkforce. It didn't. If Quasar's powers were useless against magic, trying to imprison mjolnir in a construct would have failed. it didn't, and he successfully imprisoned it to a degree where it took ALL of thor's strength to free it.

so clearly, the word "helpless" is what we call H-Y-P-E-R-B-O-L-E. Do his powers work? yes. but they're simply LESS EFFECTIVE, much as superman has a weakness towards magic but hitting him with any old magic item isn't a win button.

But Dr. Spectrum, Darkstar, and Half Life break right through with no problems. Later, either in that same issue or a continuation, Quasar put some sort of Quantum cage over Warlock's head because of the Karmic blasts from the Soul Gem. Warlock burned a hole right through it. [/B]

are you seriously trying to pull warlock dominating quasar with an infinity gem as some kind of evidence?

Originally posted by Q99
He has to amp pretty far for those to show up. He was still almost certaining gaining some boost, though.

Only Zeus's lightning from her bracers.

I don't like Superman at all and don't try to tilt anything towards his side of the pendulum but I do think he wasn't portrayed as being amped whether you like it or not.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Rachel grey's power is cosmic/psionic. The phoenix force is the life energy of all beings that will potentially exist in the universe. There isn't really a limit to what it can do, much like the power cosmic. It tends to do whatever the plot calls for. Implying it's somehow the same nature as radio waves or visible light is nonsense.

Again, it's obvious to everyone whose ever picked up a comic that neither the PC nor the Phoenix force is EM and the writers know this. Quasar is also immune to psionics, and THAT's obviously not EM either. I've also posted scans of Quasar draining power from Beta Ray Bill, Gladiator, Major Victory, Nova, and Namorita to reinforce his constructs- at least TWO of these have psionic based abilities (MV, possibly gladiator) and BRB's powers are magical in orgin, like thors.

and yet you've yet to post ANY scans of quasar saying this, only that he can't control darkforce, the reasons for which should be obvious. Darkforce drains energy from this dimension like a sponge. Anyone who sets foot in the darkforce dimension will be drained of all their life energy, EM based or not. The reasons why quasar's powers don't work on darkforce are obvious. Again, because I seem to have to spell it out, just because quasar's powers do not work versus ONE TYPE of non-em energy does not mean it doesn't work against ALL of them, and there are a LOT. Darkforce ESPECIALLY is a special case as it is not native to the 616 dimension.

Quasar #9 - Panicking because "the fuzzy feeling in his head" is outside the EM spectrum. Why if he can control/redirect/affect it?

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Quasar #11 is where he fights the mind controlled Phoenix and diverts/channels/affects her energy attacks

Quasar #13 - He admits on panel he has ZERO control of psionic energy/power.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

So whatever energy Phoenix was shooting at him COULD not have been psionic. Also Quasar is NOT "immune" to psionics. He's immune to mental take over/mind control. So unless you can provide scans that later have him developing the ability to tap/manipulate/affect psionic energy with his Q bands or being immune to psionic attack, you have no case.

Was thor holding back when Trying to KO thanos? Why? And again Quasar's shields had no problem deflecting Mjolnir there, and it's implied thor and the rest of those heroes continued to attack it.

I'll spell it out for you. Mjolnir is a magic item. If Quasar was completely useless versus magic, mjolnir would have gone through his constructs like glass- or if you prefer, like darkforce. It didn't. If Quasar's powers were useless against magic, trying to imprison mjolnir in a construct would have failed. it didn't, and he successfully imprisoned it to a degree where it took ALL of thor's strength to free it.

so clearly, the word "helpless" is what we call H-Y-P-E-R-B-O-L-E. Do his powers work? yes. but they're simply LESS EFFECTIVE, much as superman has a weakness towards magic but hitting him with any old magic item isn't a win button.

His shield holds all those attackers off (till Thanos and Warlock get serious) yet he was STRAINING to deflect a casual throw from Thor who was "toying" with him (his words not mine). It was PIS.

And he said on panel he was helpless against magic. How else did Amora control and enthrall him until the Bands fail-safe kicked in? Just like he was powerless when the Crimson Bands were about to constrict his ass.

are you seriously trying to pull warlock dominating quasar with an infinity gem as some kind of evidence?

Yes because it was a single gem not connected to the Power Gem (which amps the other Gems to universal levels). For example during that same issue : Moondragon with the Mind Gem and Prof. X stalemated each other, she set up a screen to keep him out and he did the same. Quasar shouldn't have a problem with the Soul Gem by itself. Yet he couldn't do anything to it because it's "karmic" blasts aren't in the EM spectrum.

I like how Quasar has NO control over anything else than the EM spectrum yet in the Thanos Imperative he drains energy from Surfer (cosmic), Bill (magic), Gladiator (psionic), Nova (nova force) and Ronan (cosmic) AT THE SAME TIME.

Please do not dwell in the past. Quasar was struggling when he first appeared but he did become more powerful by huge amounts over the years.
Feats like draining stars (from the earlier years also suggest that). An exploding star is more than just EM energy

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Was thor holding back when Trying to KO thanos? Why? And again Quasar's shields had no problem deflecting Mjolnir there, and it's implied thor and the rest of those heroes continued to attack it.

I'm assuming you're referring to the Infinity War scene with Masterson, correct?

IIRC, Masterson only attacked the dome once. And he was extremely hesitant with that single attack unlike the other heroes because he listened to Captain America's orders about not going on the offensive or something similar.

So that might explain the different affects Mjolnir had on Quasar's shield.

I'm too lazy to read through this discussion to find out what other Thor related debates are going on.

Originally posted by zopzop
Quasar #9 - Panicking because "the fuzzy feeling in his head" is outside the EM spectrum. Why if he can control/redirect/affect it?

Quasar #11 is where he fights the mind controlled Phoenix and diverts/channels/affects her energy attacks

Quasar #13 - He admits on panel he has ZERO control of psionic energy/power.

So whatever energy Phoenix was shooting at him COULD not have been psionic. Also Quasar is NOT "immune" to psionics. He's immune to mental take over/mind control. So unless you can provide scans that later have him developing the ability to tap/manipulate/affect psionic energy with his Q bands or being immune to psionic attack, you have no case.

Early on in the series this was the case and he seemed to think he had no control over it. But later on he learned to use the bands to protect himself from psionic energy. Hence even powerful telepaths such as Overmind and Moondragon stated on panel that Quasar was immune to their power. And at the time Overmind was able to control even beings such as the Futurist, himself a powerful telepath, and Alpha the ultimate mutant, along with the Squadron Supreme and dozens of others.

I'm not sure what the Phoenix encounter indicated but whatever power she was using he was able to use it.

As for non-EM energies in general he could also manipulate gravity to some extent since his flight and lift power were due to gravitons, whatever they actually are. And presumably kinetic energy, since his shields were able to absorb powerful kinetic hits.

Yes because it was a single gem not connected to the Power Gem (which amps the other Gems to universal levels). For example during that same issue : Moondragon with the Mind Gem and Prof. X stalemated each other, she set up a screen to keep him out and he did the same. Quasar shouldn't have a problem with the Soul Gem by itself. Yet he couldn't do anything to it because it's "karmic" blasts aren't in the EM spectrum. [/B]

Though oddly in that scene he seemed fine a few seconds after a big point blank karmic blast to the head and was straight back in the fight. My only guess his shields did something because as far as I know his soul isn't anything special like say Thor's or higher cosmic beings. Most regular people went down to a karmic blast.

Originally posted by Warlord
I like how Quasar has NO control over anything else than the EM spectrum yet in the Thanos Imperative he drains energy from Surfer (cosmic), Bill (magic), Gladiator (psionic), Nova (nova force) and Ronan (cosmic) AT THE SAME TIME.

Please do not dwell in the past. Quasar was struggling when he first appeared but he did become more powerful by huge amounts over the years.
Feats like draining stars (from the earlier years also suggest that). An exploding star is more than just EM energy

Yeah there is some inconsistency regarding Quasar's powers even in different stories from the same writer. But he has definitely stopped powerful magical weapons such as Thor's hammer on occasions so enchanted/divine weapons aren't an instant win. And like other posters have pointed out he seems to have possibly absorbed magic based energy in recent appearances, though to what extent exactly is unknown. There seems to be a trend in later Marvel to treat magic more like just another form of energy and even guys like Pym and Black Panther are using tech to manipulate it. In the old days these guys would just say they didn't understand magic and leave it at that.

The only consistent thing is that Quasar has been getting more powerful as time has gone by and things he thought he couldn't do early on he could do later. Don't forget, the Quantum Bands were thought to have vast cosmic power, which Quasar is still learning to tap all of.

Originally posted by basilisk
Early on in the series this was the case and he seemed to think he had no control over it. But later on he learned to use the bands to protect himself from psionic energy. Hence even powerful telepaths such as Overmind and Moondragon stated on panel that Quasar was immune to their power. And at the time Overmind was able to controleven beings such as the Futurist, himself a powerful telepath, and Alpha the ultimate mutant, along with the Squadron Supreme and dozens of others.

He is indeed "immune" to mental CONTROL, not mental attack. Later in the series he tried to manhandle Moondragon and she psi blasted him off her. If she wanted to fry his gray matter she probably could have.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I'm not sure what the Phoenix encounter indicated but whatever power she was using he was able to use it.

It couldn't have been psionic and had to have been within the EM spectrum because at the time, as my scans prove, he had no control over psions. That's why he panic vs Modam in the scan I provided.

As for non-EM energies in general he could also manipulate gravity to some extent since his flight and lift power were due to gravitons, whatever they actually are. And presumably kinetic energy, since his shields were able to absorb powerful kinetic hits.

To a limited extent yes. I mean he has to fly somehow. But kinetic energy definitely not. Quasar stated it himself at the end of the Cosmos in Collison arc.

Though oddly in that scene he seemed fine a few seconds after a big point blank karmic blast to the head and was straight back in the fight. My only guess his shields did something because as far as I know his soul isn't anything special like say Thor's or higher cosmic beings. Most regular people went down to a karmic blast.

PIS/CIS? 🙂

Yeah there is some inconsistency regarding Quasar's powers even in different stories from the same writer. But he has definitely stopped powerful magical weapons such as Thor's hammer on occasions so enchanted/divine weapons aren't an instant win. And like other posters have pointed out he seems to have possibly absorbed magic based energy in recent appearances, though to what extent exactly is unknown. There seems to be a trend in later Marvel to treat magic more like just another form of energy and even guys like Pym and Black Panther are using tech to manipulate it. In the old days these guys would just say they didn't understand magic and leave it at that.

The only consistent thing is that Quasar has been getting more powerful as time has gone by and things he thought he couldn't do early on he could do later. Don't forget, the Quantum Bands were thought to have vast cosmic power, which Quasar is still learning to tap all of.

Unless there was a specific issue where they explain how he's manipulating exotic energy outside the EM spectrum, we got to assume it's the writers making crap up as they go along. It'd be like Spider Man suddenly developing the power of flight with no explanation whatsoever.

The only mention of the Q Bands energy source is the Quantum Zone, the home of the potential energy of the entire universe.

Jack of Heart's zero energy.
Not part of the EM spectrum.

also... what I said above

Originally posted by zopzop
Unless there was a specific issue where they explain how he's manipulating exotic energy outside the EM spectrum, we got to assume it's the writers making crap up as they go along. It'd be like Spider Man suddenly developing the power of flight with no explanation whatsoever.

The only mention of the Q Bands energy source is the Quantum Zone, the home of the potential energy of the entire universe. [/B]

As for mental attack rather than control, I think he was able to stop both with the same mechanism. I mean Overmind had to resort to send stooges against him since he couldn't directly attack him. If he could have stopped him with a simple mindblast I think he would have. He was an extremely powerful TP, more so than Moondragon.

Kinetic energy was one he said he had no control to manipulate, but which quantum energy constructs clearly deflected and absorbed large amounts of to protect him, unlike say darkforce which passed through. Similar to not being able to manipulate psionic energy, but being able to block it in some way.

And yeah zero energy was another example as was posted above.

Originally posted by basilisk
Except that unless Spider-Man continued to mutate he had no reason for developing new powers, while Quasar had an explanation for his. The writer made a specific point of showing Quasar improving his mastery of the bands and learning improved or entirely new powers (like quantum jumping) while doing so.

But "new" powers like Quantum Jumping still don't involve invoking energy outside the EM spectrum. In case of Quantum Jumping it's merely opening a door to the dimension the Q Bands use to make their energy constructs.

Yeah that was another odd one since 'quantum energy' didn't seem to be any part of our EM spectrum and neither is our concept of potential energy. Still, that's comic book science.

Quantum Energy is what powers the Q Bands and powers the energy constructs.

As for mental attack rather than control, I think he was able to stop both with the same mechanism. I mean Overmind had to resort to send stooges against him since he couldn't directly attack him. If he could have stopped him with a simple mindblast I think he would have. He was an extremely powerful TP, more so than Moondragon.

Can Overmind even psi blast? I've never seen him do it. Every enemy he came across he tried to mentally control, even Stranger. So do you have scans of him (Quasar) resisting/being immune to psi blasts? Cause I provided one of Moondragon sending him reeling with one. He didn't seem immune at all.

Kinetic energy was one he said he had no control to manipulate, but which quantum energy constructs clearly deflected and absorbed large amounts of to protect him, unlike say darkforce which passed through. Similar to not being able to manipulate psionic energy, but being able to block it in some way.

Except it was stated on panel that the Q Bands have zero control over kinetic energy. I can even provide the scans. Quasar himself said it. Unless something changed and you can provide scans showing what's up, I'm gonna assume Quasar knew what he was talking about.

And yeah zero energy was another example as was posted above.

See the Phoenix example. Maybe the writer considered "Zero Energy" part of the EM spectrum?

Originally posted by Warlord
I like how Quasar has NO control over anything else than the EM spectrum yet in the Thanos Imperative he drains energy from Surfer (cosmic), Bill (magic), Gladiator (psionic), Nova (nova force) and Ronan (cosmic) AT THE SAME TIME.

Please do not dwell in the past. Quasar was struggling when he first appeared but he did become more powerful by huge amounts over the years.
Feats like draining stars (from the earlier years also suggest that). An exploding star is more than just EM energy

It's like showing batman year one feats to lowball current batman.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Zop's entire argument is quasar when he was a relative noob with his powers which is completely irrelevant to current quasar.

It's like showing batman year one feats to lowball current batman.

Except I'm showing on panel examples of him admitting the Q Bands have no control over psionics, darkforce, kinetic energy, weak force, or energy outside the EM spectrum (see the Modam scan).

If you or anyone else want to show me scans of him later on acquiring these powers with an explanation as to how he's all of a sudden able to affect them, I'll shut up now and leave this thread.

Originally posted by zopzop
Except I'm showing on panel examples of him admitting the Q Bands have no control over psionics, darkforce, kinetic energy, weak force, or energy outside the EM spectrum (see the Modam scan).

If you or anyone else want to show me scans of him later on acquiring these powers with an explanation as to how he's all of a sudden able to affect them, I'll shut up now and leave this thread.