Silverback Gorilla vs Kodiak Bear

Originally posted by juggerman
do we always have to prove research was done and done properly when we quote a study? im not saying its 100% true but im more inclined to believe an example given by a source that has done some research then someone simply saying "thats stupid and cant be true"

and if you were reading posts youd notice that Insomniatric said he has seen that episode too so unless we are having the same delusion id say it exists. nice try tho

cant be too hard to check out tho if you really want to see for yourself. i cant post thing from the computer im using

EDIT: i gave you the name of the show and what they were looking for in the episode what more do you need?

le sigh:

Originally posted by juggerman
The show was "The Most Extreme" and they were looking for the strongest animal. I think a beetle won

this:

"The Most Extreme" on Animal Planet suggested that a gorilla can lift two tons above its head and may be eight times as strong as an Olympic weight lifter.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Wild-Animals-705/Gorilla-strength.htm

[the page is admittedly a wiki answer, but it basically takes answers to this question from around the internet, some estimates are higher or lower than this, but it appears you got the stat from the show wrong]

an interesting point is raised in this comparison between human and gorilla, especially given skill and such (there are no gorilla weightlifters, so we don't know their actual upper lifting limit; it is totally possible a gorilla could have 5-20 times the strength of a human but fail to lift with the same efficiency). The more modest (and generally more scientific/naturalist focused) sites put the upper body strength of a gorilla at about 6-10 times that of a human, whereas forum posters like to say 20. In terms of real numbers, I'm seeing nothing over 2 tons (at the absolute max, which I think is an entirely unsupported claim anyways), and given the average car (you claimed 4 door) is between 4000-5500 pounds, this means, at absolute max and totally unproven levels of strength, a gorilla could lift the weight of one, maybe.

Originally posted by juggerman
do we always have to prove research was done and done properly when we quote a study? im not saying its 100% true but im more inclined to believe an example given by a source that has done some research then someone simply saying "thats stupid and cant be true"

cant be too hard to check out tho if you really want to see for yourself. i cant post thing from the computer im using

EDIT: i gave you the name of the show and what they were looking for in the episode what more do you need?

i was only saying what i remembered from the show which was two cars above its head.

i didnt recall the actual weight which is why i didnt quote one and i thought it was two four doors but yes i could be wrong since its been years since i saw it.

Umm...yes, if you want to be believed.

thats stupid. so i have to go behind every study and redo it to prove its correct? come now

If you make the claim, then the burden is on you to support it, not on me to run around doing your work for you.

like i said earlier i cant post on this computer so i gave you the info to look yourself. if your too lazy to do it thats ok but its there

Originally posted by juggerman
thats stupid. so i have to go behind every study and redo it to prove its correct? come now

like i said earlier i cant post on this computer so i gave you the info to look yourself. if your too lazy to do it thats ok but its there

Saying "it's there" is just a dodge. If a man claims to be a great writer you would want to see his writing, not just hear him tell you "yeah I have a great work somewhere" and if someone wants a Nobel Prize in Physics he actually has to present his findings and support them, not say "just go out and look for it, you'll see I'm right, if not whatever, it's there".

From Disovery Channel's own website for the series The Most Extreme:

Episode 11 - Strength:

Come to grips with the strongest animals on Earth! The gorilla can lift ten times it's own body weight, but, pound for pound, the African crowned eagle carries more than a cargo plane. Meet the top ten in most extreme strength. Come to grips with the strongest animals on earth! Which animals can take down prey much bigger than themselves, or carry weights ten times heavier than their own? The strongest humans can lift about 3 times their own body weight, but the average gorilla can lift 10 times it's own body weight! And, pound for pound, the African Crowned Eagle can carry more than a cargo plane, because it can fly carrying up to 4 times it's own weight. Something that would keep a cargo plane grounded. But which animal has the Most Extreme Strength? Find out on this top ten countdown.

http://animal.discovery.com/fansites/mostextreme/episode/episode_01.html

from Wikipedia:

Adult males, also called silverbacks, range in height 1.65–1.75 metres (5 ft 5 in–5 ft 9 in), and in weight 140–200 kg (310–440 lb). Adult females are often half the size of a silverback, averaging about 1.4 metres (4 ft 7 in) tall and 100 kg (220 lb). Occasionally, a silverback of over 1.8 metres (5 ft 11 in) and 230 kg (510 lb) has been recorded in the wild. Obese gorillas in captivity have reached a weight of 270 kg (600 lb).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla

So, even if we use the obese weight (which we shouldn't, obesity is known to have massively negative impacts on physical strength), that puts the max a gorilla can lift at 6000 lbs, only slightly more than a single sedan (4000-5500lbs).

The show might have used the obese weight and much smaller cars, but your claim that it could lift 2 full size sedans over its head is not supported.

though, tbh, this is really easy to look up and sort of indicates you didn't even try...

Originally posted by inimalist

though, tbh, this is really easy to look up and sort of indicates you didn't even try...

Originally posted by Omega Vision
But ini, should, like...I mean, bros leik...should ppl rally be hald acuntable for what words htey put in their posts?

60% of the time when I cite links it just takes you to a rick roll 🙂

but did you watch the episode? particularly the gorilla part? the little green demo has it lifting two cars

and your right i didnt look because im on my work computer which wont let me post links or videos so im kinda stuck saying go look. try youtube they seem to have everything 🙂

Oh, and I'd never call anything from Animal Faceoff a "study".

twas the most extreme

A grizzly bear is supposed to be the most dangerous & formidable land predator on Earth. Have any of you seen Project: Grizzly? A swat from his paw is like the equivalent of getting hit with a 500 pound weight!

Originally posted by juggerman
but did you watch the episode? particularly the gorilla part? the little green demo has it lifting two cars

and your right i didnt look because im on my work computer which wont let me post links or videos so im kinda stuck saying go look. try youtube they seem to have everything 🙂

twas the most extreme

Why should anyone take what you say seriously?

🙁 thats not nice

Originally posted by juggerman
🙁 thats not nice

Shit happens. 🙁

Edit: But even so, I maintain that you need to do more than make half-hearted claims/assertions if you want what you say to be considered as a serious argument.

wow that sucks.

im not trying to make half-hearted claims here tho. i told you im on my work computer which limits what i can do here (i.e. go to certain sites like youtube, google, or even animal planet) so i cant post anything here right now to prove my claim.

but what i can do (and have been trying to do) is try to get you to look yourself to see it. you have the show title and episode number and title so you could probably youtube it.

if i seem to be dodging or just stating random things and not backing them up i do apologise but i cant post while at work

i could wait til im off to post them but i figured we could continue this without having to wait 4 hours til im off

Originally posted by juggerman
but did you watch the episode? particularly the gorilla part? the little green demo has it lifting two cars

YouTube video

The part you are talking about happens at about 1:30 in the clip.

The weight being lifted by the gorilla is 2090 kilograms, or ~4610 pounds.

Yes, the show says this is the weight of two cars, but they don't really clarify what kind of cars, and the cars in the image are quite misleading.

For instance, a Honda Civic, not a standard 4-door sedan, weighs ~2300lbs, so this is reasonable. A sedan, like the Chevy Impala, weighs ~3700 lbs.

So, the gorilla can lift 2 very compact cars, or one normal sized sedan. Anything larger than a Civic, it cannot lift 2 of.

Additionally, watch the clip. This is not a very educational program. I imagine 2090kgs represents much closer to a theoretical maximum that gorillas might lift, not an accurate representation of how strong they are.

Thank you inimalist! i knew i could count on you! I love you! 😍

but yeah thats what i was talking about. i agree the video is misleading but i could only remember some of it since i saw it a long time ago.

anyway if the gorilla can do that then would that significantly up its chances here or does it really not matter?

I don't really think it matters. anything that the strength would allow the gorilla to do would, IMHO, be negligible given it has to come in close to the bear, and gorillas don't seem to have much in the way of protection that would prevent massive damage from the bear's teeth or claws, and no real way to bypass the bear's hide, which can stand up to the blows of other kodiaks.

gorillas are known to uproot trees and have fairly advanced tool use, so there might be something there, however I'm unaware of them ever using this for combat or utilizing a log as a weapon. we're it able to do that, it might even the odds a bit.

Originally posted by inimalist
I don't really think it matters. anything that the strength would allow the gorilla to do would, IMHO, be negligible given it has to come in close to the bear, and gorillas don't seem to have much in the way of protection that would prevent massive damage from the bear's teeth or claws, and no real way to bypass the bear's hide, which can stand up to the blows of other kodiaks.

gorillas are known to uproot trees and have fairly advanced tool use, so there might be something there, however I'm unaware of them ever using this for combat or utilizing a log as a weapon. we're it able to do that, it might even the odds a bit.

Also, aren't gorillas incapable of swimming? Or is that a myth?

I ask because bears are great swimmers, so that would make this even more of a stomp if it spilled out into a river or lake.

How did this thread ever get to 8 pages over 2 years?

No shit, I proved the gorilla wins in the first page a year and a half ago.