Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66The source book states that Juyo masters do channel their inner turmoil. So I dunno what the fuk Mace was talking about..?
I thought the whole point of Mace creating Vaapad was to channel his own inner darkness into a weapon of light. Why would he go through the trouble of creating a new form if juyo already did that?
Originally posted by Galan007
Nonsense. "Sith intensity of focus on physical combat ability" equates to channeling the dark side in battle. Simple.
Eh no. I don't see how that interpretaion comes from the text. If taken literally, and I don't see why we wouldn't take it that way unless you have proof, it would mean that a Jedi who mastered Juyo "focus"ed on "physical combat abilty" as "intesely" as a "Sith".
A Jedi practitioner of Juyo comes close to the dark sided intensity of a Sith in battle- that's why Juyo is "the most dangerous Form in regard to falling to the dark side". However, a Juyo master's channeling of those emotions is what prevents them from directly tapping the dark side. It's what can make Juyo a 'weapon of the light'.
You still have no evidence of it turning darkness into a 'weapon of light' other than speculation.
Vaapad and Juyo each fall under Form VII of lightsaber combat. They each require the same type of emotions in battle. They each channel those emotions.
Notice how I said "form". They are technically of the same form, yet are different variations.
The only difference between them is that Vaapad channels an opponent's darkness as well. Thus if the emotions required for Vaapad can be used as a 'weapon of the light', common sense dictates that the emotions required in Juyo can as well.
How does common sense dictate this? Afterall, Juyo uses the same emotions of Vaapad, yet doesn't have a super conducting loop. So why does 'weapon of light' get a free pass?
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I thought the whole point of Mace creating Vaapad was to channel his own inner darkness into a weapon of light. Why would he go through the trouble of creating a new form if juyo already did that?Yes, vaapad also allows Mace to channel another opponents darkness, but that is not the reason he created it.
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Originally posted by ares834😂 Strawman, much?
Eh no. I don't see how that interpretaion comes from the text. If taken literally, and I don't see why we wouldn't take it that way unless you have proof, it would mean that a Jedi who mastered Juyo "focus"ed on "physical combat abilty" as "intesely" as a "Sith".
If a Jedi were fighting with the same intensity as a Sith, they would be tapping the dark side (obviously.) And while a Jedi master of Juyo may come "close" to that level of intensity, coming close to the dark side =/= directly channeling it. Simple.
Originally posted by ares834Other than plainly obvious logic, you mean? If a Jedi uses Juyo for good, he is using it as a weapon of the light. Simple.
You still have no evidence of it turning darkness into a 'weapon of light' other than speculation.
Originally posted by ares834The superconducting loop is the only discernible difference between Juyo and Vaapad. That said, if Mace were battling an opponent and couldn't channel their own darkness to form the superconducting loop (for whatever reason) then he would essentially just be using Juyo against them. Simple.
How does common sense dictate this? Afterall, Juyo uses the same emotions of Vaapad, yet doesn't have a super conducting loop. So why does 'weapon of light' get a free pass?
Sidenote: Are you getting as bored with this as I am?
Originally posted by Galan007
😂 Strawman, much?If a Jedi were fighting with the same intensity as a Sith, they would be tapping the dark side (obviously.) And while a Jedi master of Juyo may come "close" to that level of intensity, coming close to the dark side =/= directly channeling it. Simple.
I would agree with you except it doesn't say they are fighting with "Sith intensity" it says the "focus on physical combat ability" with "Sith intesnity". Really I don't see anyother way to take this.
Other than plainly obvious logic, you mean? If a Jedi uses Juyo for good, he is using it as a weapon of the light. Simple.
Once again the Mortis Trilogy makes it clear that light=/=good.
“Too much dark or light will be the undoing of life as you know it.”
The superconducting loop is the only discernible difference between Juyo and Vaapad. That said, if Mace were battling an opponent and couldn't channel their own darkness to form the superconducting loop (for whatever reason) then he would essentially just be using Juyo against them. Simple.
I'm unsure why you can claim that Juyo channels their own darkness into light but not an opponents. Plus it doesn't make sense that Windu would devlop Vaapad to do the very same thing that Juyo already does.
"I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light."
Sidenote: Are you getting as bored with this as I am?
Yes... This will probably be my last post on the matter.
Originally posted by ares834No. It says a Jedi "comes close to the Sith intensity of focus on physical combat ability." You're trying to warp that quote to better suit your argument.
I would agree with you except it doesn't say they are fighting with "Sith intensity" it says the "focus on physical combat ability" with "Sith intesnity". Really I don't see anyother way to take this.
Again, a Jedi may come "close" to that level of intensity, but coming close =/= directly channeling the dark side.
Originally posted by ares834Eh, I could be wrong, but that quote appears to be referring to the balance of the force- which literally has nothing to do with what I've been saying.
Once again the Mortis Trilogy makes it clear that light=/=good.“Too much dark or light will be the undoing of life as you know it.”
Again, if a Jedi uses Juyo for good, they are using it as a weapon of the light. Same with Vaapad.
Originally posted by ares834Because no source(s) state that Juyo channels any other inner turmoil aside from its user's, nor have we ever seen it do so. Channeling an opponent's darkness into half of a superconducting loop is a trait inherent only in Vaapad.
I'm unsure why you can claim that Juyo channels their own darkness into light but not an opponents.
Originally posted by ares834Well, it really just comes down to what source you believe to be more canonical, I suppose... Do you believe Mace's comment? Or do you believe a quote from a textbook that all Jedi had to learn upon acceptance into the Order- the fundamental didactic building block of their entire Jedi career?
Plus it doesn't make sense that Windu would devlop Vaapad to do the very same thing that Juyo already does."I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light."
Out of those two options, I'll side with the latter, personally.
Originally posted by ares834I feel the same way. 👆
Yes... This will probably be my last post on the matter.