Is there a chance a non-believer will go to heaven?

Originally posted by MRasheed
I don't believe any adult dies without some knowledge of God reaching him in some way.

How about every human being born before Abraham?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
How about every human being born before Abraham?

uhhh... you do recognize that I'm a Muslim, right? Muslims recognize that Adam was the first prophet of God as well as the first man.

You might want to alter your question. I certainly don't believe that Abraham "invented" God! lol

Originally posted by MRasheed
uhhh... you do recognize that I'm a Muslim, right? Muslims recognize that Adam was the first prophet of God as well as the first man.

You might want to alter your question. I certainly don't believe that Abraham "invented" God! lol

I see this devolving into a debate about the age of the universe...

That's up to you, I reckon.

If he or she finds God on there death bed then there is a chance that they will go to heaven.

This is the way I look at it. God is all knowing, and forgiving, he knows exactly what your situation is, and why you chose certain things, and he understands probably better than you do yourself your conflicts, and why you believe or don't believe. So, absolutely, people who don't believe can go to heaven.

God's mercy and forgiveness are reserved for those who turn their faces towards Him, menokokoro. You are playing very freely with God's rules which are quite definite in this regard. If you don't believe, your soul is in great peril.

I don't believe that at all. I believe his mercy and forgiveness is reserved for all of his children, why wouldn't it? He loves us more than anything else, he wants us to follow his commandments, but like I said, he understands each person's individual circumstances perfectly, so he knows why they believe, or don't, if the reason they don't believe is just, or at least in their eyes,then why would he punish them for it?

a non-believer wotn go to heaven because it doe not exist duh

you will be born again

Originally posted by kilasplice43897
a non-believer wotn go to heaven because it doe not exist duh

you will be born again

Originally posted by menokokoro
I don't believe that at all. I believe his mercy and forgiveness is reserved for all of his children, why wouldn't it?

Because He told us who it was reserved for.

Originally posted by menokokoro
He loves us more than anything else, he wants us to follow his commandments, but like I said, he understands each person's individual circumstances perfectly, so he knows why they believe, or don't, if the reason they don't believe is just, or at least in their eyes,then why would he punish them for it?

Because God is the Author of what is just or not just, not us. He told us what He would reward, and what He would punish and why. He told us what He would forgive and what He wouldn't forgive and in what circumstances.

Why are you trying to reinvent this wheel?

Originally posted by MRasheed
Because He told us who it was reserved for.

Because God is the Author of what is just or not just, not us. He told us what He would reward, and what He would punish and why. He told us what He would forgive and what He wouldn't forgive and in what circumstances.

Why are you trying to reinvent this wheel?

Originally posted by menokokoro
How can you believe in a God who would damn so many people so easily?

Why are you so quick to side with a bunch of people who said, "F*ck you, God. I'll do what I want?"

God could JUST as easily grant them an eternal reward.

Originally posted by MRasheed
Why are you so quick to side with a bunch of people who said, "F*ck you, God. I'll do what I want?"

God could JUST as easily grant them an eternal reward.

Originally posted by menokokoro
You aren't listening to what I am saying...

Yes, I am. In your opinion, God should be easier on the people who have rejected Him and dedicate their lives to sin, and you think He should be harder on the people who believe in Him but make normal human mistakes and slip ups in their striving to please Him. It actually works in the opposite way, which makes significantly more sense to me. I'm having trouble understanding why you think the disbeliever could possibly deserve God's lenience when they've basically said "F*ck you, God."

Originally posted by menokokoro
...they don't believe because they believe that they see evidence stacking against him, or not enough in his favor, why is taht worth punishing?

Most human beings can barely figure out their own lives, but I'm to get they can understand a being who is infinitely superior to them who's ways and motives will never be grasped by a human mind. Most humans get a little bit of info about a celebrity and then slander and abuse that celebrity until they find out the "whole story" of why the celebrity did what they did and realize how wrong they were for talking trash... how infinitely greater goes the same situation in this context, in which people, with a poor understanding of how life, spirit, and death functions anyway, think they have what it takes to judge an omniscient Being, who sees EVERY side of EVERY situation imaginable.

Originally posted by menokokoro
I simply do not understand how anyone can believe that our merciful, loving God would be so wrathful over simple disbelief.

Tell me this...

When the Most Knowledgable, Most Understanding being in all of existence says that truly the worst crime/sin is to disbelieve in the One who made you, but little menokokoro, who is not the most knowledgable, most understanding being in existence, and is still trying to figure out the little corner of life in his control, says that disbelief in the One who made me is a trivial matter...

...which one should I give the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are actually talking about?

Some people think by rejecting a character in a book means that you reject goodness and are going to some punishment just because you don't have a name for it. Soooooooo silly.

It's like telling someone that they don't have any morals because they don't believe that the Bible is true. lol

There are a whole lot of horrible religious people out there. And there are a whole lot of righteous non-believers.

Some people dream that the Creator made His debut in a book. Sooooooooooo silly. lol

True, true. No need for a book.

Repent, O Dreamer! Before you get in trouble.

Lol, nah not me. Trouble finds me. No need for repenting, been there, done that.

I'm good to go.