Originally posted by Lord Lucienhaermm You're making an assumption, dude. Sadako is the fanboy, man. Myself and a few others have proven that wizards are more powerful, man. DDM and I both love SW more than HP, but that doesn't mean we side with our fave. That's a Sadako thing.
Hey, I'm just summarizing what you tend to show us.
Get it now?
Originally posted by Rogue JediYou can love Star Wars more than Harry Potter all you want. But laughing at/mocking people's arguments when they oppose your chosen side is picturesque arrogance/douchebaggery.
haermm You're making an assumption, dude. Sadako is the fanboy, man. Myself and a few others have proven that wizards are more powerful, man. DDM and I both love SW more than HP, but that doesn't mean we side with our fave. That's a Sadako thing.Get it now?
Again, not that the Internet demands any less...
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
haermm You're making an assumption, dude. Sadako is the fanboy, man. Myself and a few others have proven that wizards are more powerful, man. DDM and I both love SW more than HP, but that doesn't mean we side with our fave. That's a Sadako thing.Get it now?
LOL 😂
Sure, RJ.... Sure....
Seriously who are you trying to convince/delude..?? Everyone who has every seen you posting here ever will know how crazy you are for the wizards. and they'll also have seen you making a fool of yourself for trying to deny it.
lol
Originally posted by Nephthys
He did cement the bloody conditions. It's just you nitpicking the freaking wording of the OP and trying to gimp the thread in your favour. Again.
Exactly the opposite is true.
By giving the wizards access to tools that they have access to in the majority of the films, he is doing the opposite of gimping. Removing those tools from the wizards, however, WOULD constitute gimping, but it would still be allowed because the Hogwarts masters do not always have control of the dementors.
Additionally, the OP did not state whether or not dementors were allowed, what time frames the HP universe snapshot is taken (generally, for progressive or series movies, we must state which version of the characters are or which movie they come from. Another example of this would be using Neo: Neo obviously becomes much more uber in the first film and that uberness is even greater in the next two films. Another two examples would be the progression of Percy Jackson or the sorcerer's apprentice stuff.) Since the OP failed to mention which time period for the characters and did not dissallow some very important portions from the HP-verse, it would be breaking the rules to do so after the first few posts. (Generally, we've welcomed those changes up through the first page. Beyond that has not been accepted. Actually, sometimes, not even down to the bottom of the first page has been accepted: some want it to be in the first 3or 4 posts of the thread starter.)
I get why RJ pisses you off: I've been on the receiving end of RJ in discussions before, as well. I understand how it can get frustrating. But don't let that frustration get in the way of rational thought. And, holy shit, dude, you're like the coolest guy outside of the MVF. RJ REALLY pisses you off. 😆
Originally posted by Nephthys
The OP clearly says 'Hogwarts'. It does not say 'Hogwarts and 2 other fricking schools plus representatives of the ministry of magic and dementors.' Only Hogwarts. Just let it go and stop trying to gimp the thread to the only scenario where the wizards stand a chance. Let it go.
And the dementors were present on Hogwarts grounds in some of the movies. RJ has done nothing incorrect in his points. The OP was not clear enough and it is too late to make amendments to the thread.
Hell, even I forgot about the Dementors and I'm supposed to be "Mr. Granular."
Originally posted by Nephthys
That isn't the high-end screen feats of Hogwarts. The real high-end feats would be in the sixth movie, as this is the incarnation in which the most spells have been revealed to the audience and are within the characters skillset and the movie in which Slughorn has an entire cauldron of Felix Felicus in his dungeon. [b]That is the high-end screen feat of hogwarts. Your reasoning that GOF is the high-end is flawed because it isn't Hogwarts, getting the 'feats'. The other schools are completely seperate from Hogwarts as are the ministry representatives and the dementors. They are in no way affiliated with Hogwarts whatsoever. [/B]
I did not see a cauldron of that potion: it was a vial in a cabinet or around his neck, or something. There was a very poisonous potion brewed in a cauldron, however. Is that what you're referring to?
But, yeah, "high end screen feats" would have the Hogwarts masters in control of dementors as they were in film three.
Exactly the opposite is true.By giving the wizards access to tools that they have access to in the majority of the films, he is doing the opposite of gimping.
'The majority of the movies'? You mean 1 out of 7, right? Now I'm no math whiz, but that doesn't seem like a majority to me. RJ is trying to gimp the thread so that its the Goblet of Fire incarnation, because thats the only one with more wizards in the castle than Xavier can mindrape comfortably (even though they're not a part of Hogwarts at all), and so that he has access to the dementors (though I can't actually recall them being in that movie personally). He is trying to give the wizards (read: Hogwarts specifically and only) reinforcements that were not mentioned anywhere in the OP so that he can 'win'. This is pretty much gimping at its finest imo.
Additionally, the OP did not state whether or not dementors were allowed,
So we assume something is there unless sepcified then, do we? Ok, then Obi-Wan has a Death Star and Xavier has Cerebro.
what time frames the HP universe snapshot is taken (generally, for progressive or series movies, we must state which version of the characters are or which movie they come from. Another example of this would be using Neo: Neo obviously becomes much more uber in the first film and that uberness is even greater in the next two films. Another two examples would be the progression of Percy Jackson or the sorcerer's apprentice stuff.) Since the OP failed to mention which time period for the characters and did not dissallow some very important portions from the HP-verse, it would be breaking the rules to do so after the first few posts. (Generally, we've welcomed those changes up through the first page. Beyond that has not been accepted. Actually, sometimes, not even down to the bottom of the first page has been accepted: some want it to be in the first 3or 4 posts of the thread starter.)
Which is why he hasn't done so. The only one trying to specify a time-frame is RJ, which he certainly has absolutely no authority to do.
And the dementors were present on Hogwarts grounds in some of the movies. RJ has done nothing incorrect in his points. The OP was not clear enough and it is too late to make amendments to the thread.
But they were not members of Hogwarts school of witchcraft and wizardry in any way. They were bodygaurds in the employ of the ministry of magic. RJ's argument would be like me saying that since the Basilisk/Voldemort/The Death Eaters/Grawp/The Centuars etc stood in the school grounds at some point they're all members of every Hogwarts thread. No, they are not affiliated with the castle, in any movie save flashbacks, so they are not a part of Hogwarts as a collective.
I did not see a cauldron of that potion: it was a vial in a cabinet or around his neck, or something. There was a very poisonous potion brewed in a cauldron, however. Is that what you're referring to?
You are correct. I was confusing the book and the movies.
But, yeah, "high end screen feats" would have the Hogwarts masters in control of dementors as they were in film three.
Bullshit. The Hogwarts masters were not in control of the dementors in any way shape or form. Not once do they obey a member of Hogwarts at all. Every time they must be chased away with Patronuses and they actively seek to harm the students of the school at least twice. They work for the Ministry, not Hogwarts. End of discussion.
Originally posted by Nephthys
'The majority of the movies'? You mean 1-2 out of 7, right? Now I'm no math whiz, but that doesn't seem like a majority to me. RJ is trying to gimp the thread so that its the Goblet of Fire incarnation, because thats the only one with more wizards in the castle than Xavier can mindrape comfortably, and so that he has access to the dementors (though I can't actually recall them being in that movie personally). He is trying to give the wizards (read: Hogwarts specifically and only) reinforcements that where not mentioned anywhere in the OP so that he can 'win'. This is pretty much gimping at its finest imo.
Incorrect.
They wizards have access to "use" the dementors in movies 1-5..maybe 6. (I think they lose control of them in six or something.)
The dementors are under the control of the "good" wizards until then.
And, that's not gimping: that's adhering to the "high end screen feats" rule that is usually understood in vs. discussions.
Wait, we may just have a small misunderstanding of what "gimping" means.
I think that gimping means taking things and abilities away from characters in versus threads that they have access to. i.e. Taking away Neo's ability to fly, putting McClane in a room with NOTHING but steel walls (because McClane is at his best when there's shit everywhere to use to beat the shit out of his oppenents...shit (had to type "shit" one more time just for fun)), etc.
What is your definition of gimping?
Originally posted by Nephthys
So we assume something is there unless sepcified then, do we? Ok, then Obi-Wan has a death star and Xavier has Cerebro.
The Death Star was never in control or a tool of Obi Wan. That won't work.
But I was under the assumption that Cerebro was allowed. Was it not?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Which is why he hasn't done so. The only one trying to specify a time-frame is RJ, which he certainly has absolutely no authority to do.
No, he's just adhering to the "high end screen feats" idea.
If no time-frame is specified, all of us can choose which tools each side gets if they are specifically not disallowed in the OP. That's why Impediment wants us to make the thread conditions so very clear in the OP: to prevent shit like this. (That's part of why someone named him the best debator in the "Best all-around KMC poster" award thread: he can see some of these shitstorms before they happen.)
Originally posted by Nephthys
But they were not members of Hogwarts svhool of witchcraft and wizardry in any way. They were bodygaurds in the employ of the ministry of magic. RJ's argument would be like me saying that since the Basilisk/Voldemort/The Death Eaters were in the school at some point they're all members of every Hogwarts thread. No, they are not affiliated with the castle, in any movie save flashbacks, so they are not a part of Hogwarts as a collective.
But the Death Eaters and Voldemort are not members of Hogwarts during the movies.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You are correct. I was confusing the book and the movies.
Cool. No one can say you never admit fault, now. Remember this post as people around these parts will accuse you of this, quite often. A quick link to this post of yours should shut them up, as have other posts I "remember" to post any time someone claims I never admit fault.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Bullshit. The Hogwarts masters were not in control of the dementors in any way shape or form. Not once do they obey a member of Hogwarts at all. Every time they must be chased away with Patronuses and they actively seek to harm the students of the school at least twice. They work for the [b]Ministry, not Hogwarts. End of discussion. [/B]
Incorrect.
They were deployed by the ministry of Magic to protect Hogwarts and they did listen to the school masters.
This fits the bill, perfectly, as tools for the Hogwarts dwellers. They WILL protect Hogwarts from perceived threats, which includes the people in this thread.
Additionally, dementors are not mindless fools: they have sentience. They dared not openly feed on the students despite there being hundreds or even over a thousand of delicious happy souls to feed on.
However, and this is a big however...........the people of Hogwarts will be dead before the dementors can do anything, imo.
The thread would then be over.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Neph is right.
Which portions? Because he is definitely wrong on a couple of points and partially right on another.
Mainly the dementors bit.
I agree that High end feats are to be allowed, but RJ seems to disagree routinely with this, insisting frequently that presenting his "opponent's" low end feats as their high end....and other such reductionist gimpery.
You're right that the deathstar was never an Obi-wan resource.
He did have star Destroyers at his disposal.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I agree that High end feats are to be allowed, but RJ seems to disagree routinely with this, insisting frequently that presenting his "opponent's" low end feats as their high end....and other such reductionist gimpery.You're right that the deathstar was never an Obi-wan resource.
He did have star Destroyers at his disposal.
I agree that RJ is very inconsistent and does make his choices to fit his angle on these discussions. But aren't we all guilty of the same? Often times...I uh.....don't mention ways in which I could be wrong on my choices in the hopes that others do not figure out what I've already thought of. RJ could probably think of dozens of times I have told him not to mention "pwns" to certain points he's made. He often runs ideas past me to see if I'll think of counter arguments.
And, yes, the predecessors of the Star Destroyers would be tools that Obi-wan has. It's quite obvious that those pre-Star Destroyers were at Obi Wan's command because he was a FREAKIN' general in the Clone Wars. 😆
But what does the 'screen feats only' rule do to the idea of him getting one? He was never seen in or commanding one in the movies: it was never a "tool" used by Obi-wan in the movies. This is where the "screen feats only" rule gets in the way of logic. I say they should be allowed in any Obi Wan thread, unless the thread starter specifies differently just as you would and anyone else that knows even a little about Star Wars.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Incorrect.They wizards have access to "use" the dementors in movies 1-5..maybe 6. (I think they lose control of them in six or something.)
The dementors are under the control of the "good" wizards until then.
The wizards? Yes. Hogwarts? No. As I have stated over and over, the dementors work for the ministry, not Hogwarts. If Dumbledore tried to give a ministry-controlled Dementore an order, it wouldn't work, because he has no authority over them.
And, that's not gimping: that's adhering to the "high end screen feats" rule that is usually understood in vs. discussions.
I quite disagree. RJ never mentioned this topic until I proved that there are enough wizards in Hogwarts for Xavier to mindcontrol. Suddenly he's talking about adding 2 more schools and dementors. He's trying to, as Zampano said, better than I could, 'give the defenders reinforcements not specifically specified by the OP.'
The Death Star was never in control or a tool of Obi Wan. That won't work.
I was merely giving an example, though as Sadako pointed out, he does have a Clone Wars Capital Ship under his command as per ROTS.
But I was under the assumption that Cerebro was allowed. Was it not?
I doubt Xavier lugged the thing to Hogwarts.
No, he's just adhering to the "high end screen feats" idea.
And I have proven why he is incorrect in his choice.
If no time-frame is specified, all of us can choose which tools each side gets if they are specifically not disallowed in the OP. That's why Impediment wants us to make the thread conditions so very clear in the OP: to prevent shit like this. (That's part of why someone named him the best debator in the "Best all-around KMC poster" award thread: he can see some of these shitstorms before they happen.)
So you're saying that if the OP doesn't specify something we each get to personally choose too include or exclude it? Lol, thats fair. Nah, I'm going to call bullshit on that.
But the Death Eaters and Voldemort are not members of Hogwarts during the movies.
Neither are the Dementors. Or the other schools. Or the ministry officials.
Cool. No one can say you never admit fault, now. Remember this post as people around these parts will accuse you of this, quite often. A quick link to this post of yours should shut them up, as have other posts I "remember" to post any time someone claims I never admit fault.
Well I checked youtube and you were right. I'm not going to lie about shit, now am I?
Incorrect.They were deployed by the ministry of Magic to protect Hogwarts and they did listen to the school masters.
So when someone is tasked with protecting someone, they work for them? No, that is not how this works. The dementors were tasked with preventing Serious Blacks entrance to the school and and to capture him. By the ministry. They do not work for Hogwarts in this matter. And when did they ever listen to the school masters?
This fits the bill, perfectly, as tools for the Hogwarts dwellers.
They are not 'tools', they are sentient beings. 😬
Combatants that were not included in this thread.
They WILL protect Hogwarts from perceived threats, which includes the people in this thread.
They are just as likely to attack the shool itself as the intruders. Even if the were actually in the thread. Which they are not.
Additionally, dementors are not mindless fools: they have sentience. They dared not openly feed on the students despite there being hundreds or even over a thousand of delicious happy souls to feed on.
They seemed fine to atack Harry in the forest.
However, and this is a big however...........the people of Hogwarts will be dead before the dementors can do anything, imo.The thread would then be over.
Oh, I quite agree.
He was never seen in or commanding one in the movies: it was never a "tool" used by Obi-wan in the movies.
Actually he was. The scene's where he's going after Grievous. He appears both on the ship as a general and commands the attack.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The wizards? Yes. Hogwarts? No. As I have stated over and over, the dementors work for the ministry, not Hogwarts. If Dumbledore tried to give a ministry-controlled Dementore an order, it wouldn't work, because he has no authority over them.
1. False as the Hogwarts masters DID have control and could direct the dementors to a perceived threat, ie, if Black was discovered, they were to direct the dementors towards the thread and call the Ministry authorities.
2. It's a moot point because they are their protecting Hogwarts from all directions, both on and off the grounds.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I quite disagree. RJ never mentioned this topic until I proved that there are enough wizards in Hogwarts for Xavier to mindcontrol. Suddenly he's talking about adding 2 more schools and dementors. He's trying to, as Zampano said, better than I could, 'give the defenders reinforcements not specifically specified by the OP.'
I agree that the other schools do NOT count. The dementors do, due to a fault of the OP not being ironclad.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I was merely giving an example, though as Sadako pointed out, he does have a Clone Wars Capital Ship under his command as per ROTS.
Furthering the point that this thread is done, imo. naughty
Originally posted by Nephthys
I doubt Xavier lugged the thing to Hogwarts.
Why would he need to? 313
BOOYA! 😆
Edit - Wait wait wait...I see your point. I forgot about the "technology" shield charm again.
Originally posted by Nephthys
And I have proven why he is incorrect in his choice.
I disagree, obviously. But we've said our pieces, right?
Originally posted by Nephthys
So you're saying that if the OP doesn't specify something we each get to personally choose too include or exclude it? Lol, thats fair. Nah, I'm going to call bullshit on that.
No, what I'm saying is: the OP wasn't specific on what time-frame of Harry Potter this is from so we can literally pick and choose ALL tools from ALL times because the OP did not state otherwise. Notice that some of the older threads say "from the Half-Blood Prince", "Goblet of Fire", or "Vader from Episode III, but before he becomes mostly Cyborg" but this thread does not specify something like that.
Quite fortunately, you can't call bullshit on that because we'd have a shit storm in every thread with people adding to and taking away from every thread, just like is happening in this thread right now.
We cannot simply pick and choose, multiple pages in, what we are not going to allow or disallow in our threads. Not only is that douchy, it's against the rules.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Neither are the Dementors. Or the other schools. Or the ministry officials.
But dementors were deployed at and protecting Hogwarts from invaders in movie 3...which you already knew. 313
That's the difference. Death Eaters and Volde were not, at any point, deployed to Hogwarts to protect it from invaders, else you would have a really damn good point.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well I checked youtube and you were right. I'm not going to lie about shit, now am I?
Just trust me: save that quote or remember it and post it when people give you shit. It comes in handy when people try to slander you. 🙂 It has happened to me no less than 3 times in the MVF: once by AC, once by RJ, and once by another person that I have forgoten about.
Originally posted by Nephthys
So when someone is tasked with protecting someone, they work for them? No, that is not how this works. The dementors were tasked with preventing Serious Blacks entrance to the school and and to capture him. By the ministry. They do not work for Hogwarts in this matter. And when did they ever listen to the school masters?
Strawman: in no way does anything you've stated above change the fact that they were deployed to and protecting Hogwarts, which makes them a nice tool to have since the OP did not restrict this thread to any particular HP movie or time period.
Originally posted by Nephthys
They are not 'tools', they are sentient beings. 😬Combatants that were not included in this thread.
But they were allowed, accidentally, when the thread starter did not specify a time-frame from which the HP people come.
Originally posted by Nephthys
They are just as likely to attack the shool itself as the intruders. Even if the were actually in the thread. Which they are not.
Incorrect. You yourself mentioned the extremely low amount of "attacks" to the students. Additionally, each of the headmasters was more than capable enough to fend off their attacks, which prevented this incorrect "danger" you are creating.
And, they are in the thread: as are those stupid pixie thingies they kept in jars and any other stupid shit kept at Hogwarts during movies 1-7.
Originally posted by Nephthys
They seemed fine to atack Harry in the forest.
The Forbidden Forest != Hogwarts Castle and Hogwarts Grounds.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh, I quite agree.
Indeed. So why are we even going at it?
Originally posted by Sadako of GirthThis coming from the guy who always uses LW4 Riggs instead of Riggs in his prime. Hello, Pot.
Mainly the dementors bit.I agree that High end feats are to be allowed, but RJ seems to disagree routinely with this, insisting frequently that presenting his "opponent's" low end feats as their high end....and other such reductionist gimpery.
You're right that the deathstar was never an Obi-wan resource.You didn't specify which version of Obi Wan. TPM Kenobi didn't have star destroyers.
He did have star Destroyers at his disposal.
And no, he never had star destroyers at his disposal. Never. Not once.
pwned.
1. False as the Hogwarts masters DID have control and could direct the dementors to a perceived threat, ie, if Black was discovered, they were to direct the dementors towards the thread and call the Ministry authorities.
In the same way that if a civilian saw a criminal they would call the police. This is not the same as commanding the police though.
2. It's a moot point because they are their protecting Hogwarts from all directions, both on and off the grounds.
No, they are searching for Serius Black, not protecting the castle. And this assumes that the PoA incarnation is being used. When it isn't.
I agree that the other schools do NOT count. The dementors do, due to a fault of the OP not being ironclad.
And I still disagree with that. Since when do we assume something is there unless specified it isn't? It's the other way around. We do not assume something without proof. Thats the way I've always seen the rules interpretated on KMC.
Furthering the point that this thread is done, imo.
I agree, this thread should not have gotten past the first page. Though I disagree that Obi-Wan should get a Capital Ship under his command. It is not in his standard equipment, just as the dementors are not in Hogwarts.
Why would he need to?
You need to strap in to Cerebro, and its not exactly something you can fit into your pocket. Unless I've misinterpreted what you meant.
No, what I'm saying is: the OP wasn't specific on what time-frame of Harry Potter this is from so we can literally pick and choose ALL tools from ALL times because the OP did not state otherwise.
You mean that we can use anything from any movie even if it contradicts the timeframe? Like using feats from the sixth movie while using the dementors from the third?
Bull. Oney. This is never even implied in the new rules. GTFO with this shit.
Quite fortunately, you can't call bullshit on that because we'd have a shit storm in every thread with people adding to and taking away from every thread, just like is happening in this thread right now.
Its happening anyway, as you said, so I don't know what your point was. Nowhere in the rules is this said.
We cannot simply pick and choose, multiple pages in, what we are not going to allow or disallow in our threads. Not only is that douchy, it's against the rules.
But that is exactly what RJ did. Multiple pages in, after all his other arguements had failed he suddenly twisted the thread to allow him dementors. Bull. Shit.
But dementors were deployed at and protecting Hogwarts from invaders in movie 3...which you already knew.
They patrolled the grounds, but were not members of Hogwarts. And this thread is Just Hogwarts.
That's the difference. Death Eaters and Volde were not, at any point, deployed to Hogwarts to protect it from invaders, else you would have a really damn good point.
Not really. They were deployed by a group completely seperate from Hogwarts itself to perform a task within the grounds of Hogwarts. I'm not seeing much of a difference here.
Strawman: in no way does anything you've stated above change the fact that they were deployed to and protecting Hogwarts, which makes them a nice tool to have since the OP did not restrict this thread to any particular HP movie or time period.
It is not a Strawman, it cuts right to the heart of the issue. That the Dementors are completely independant from Hogwarts school with the only link being that they're near each other.
And if you consider them 'tools', then they fall under the Standard Equipment rules. Dementors are not standard guardians of Hogwarts, therefore they are not allowed.
Incorrect. You yourself mentioned the extremely low amount of "attacks" to the students. Additionally, each of the headmasters was more than capable enough to fend off their attacks, which prevented this incorrect "danger" you are creating.
The only reason they didn't attack was because they were under orders not to from the ministry. Even then they couldn't stop themselves. Here they are under no such thing (not even being in the thread for a start).
And, they are in the thread: as are those stupid pixie thingies they kept in jars and any other stupid shit kept at Hogwarts during movies 1-7.
No.
The Forbidden Forest != Hogwarts Castle and Hogwarts Grounds.
The Forbidden Forest is actually a part of the grounds. Hagrid keeps the Threstals in there in fact, and tends to the forest partially (first movie, looking after the unicorns).
Indeed. So why are we even going at it?
You interrupted my conversation with RJ. 😛
They are at Hogwarts. How're the star destroyers gonna get there? In time to make a difference?
I would assume it would be in orbit if it was actually in the thread.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
This coming from the guy who always uses LW4 Riggs instead of Riggs in his prime. Hello, Pot.You didn't specify which version of Obi Wan. TPM Kenobi didn't have star destroyers.
And no, he never had star destroyers at his disposal. Never. Not once.
pwned.
Lethal weapon 1 or 3 actually.
Incorrect. Even in LW1, he is slow. And ALSO, if he hadnt learned how to block a basic jab, by LW3, it stands to reson perfectly well, that he hadnt leanrd it in LW1. 🙂
Thats right, but ROTS Kenobi did. Clone wars Kenobi did. High end, perfectly valid, indisputable screenfeat.