Originally posted by Nephthys
In the same way that if a civilian saw a criminal they would call the police. This is not the same as commanding the police though.
Incorrect and this is also a faulty comparison.
It would be similar to wild bodyguards protecting a very large family.
And, you are also incorrect on "commanding the police". Second in command from the ministry of Magic was the head of Hogwarts at one point during the time that the dementors were still under the control of the ministry of magic: Professor Umbridge. That directly flies in the face of your idea that they were not controlled by the Hogwarts masters.
This is also independent of your false assumption that the school masters did not exert control over the dementors.
Originally posted by N.
No, they are searching for Serius Black, not protecting the castle. And this assumes that the PoA incarnation is being used. When it isn't.
Incorrect: they were sent to Hogwarts to protect the students as well as Harry. Dumbledore specifically says, in the welcoming speech, that they were setup there at Hogwarts for protection. Keep in mind the Harry was not the only potential target. (However, I could be wrong about that: that may be a book-only tid-bit. If I'm wrong about this point, I will apologize.)
And you assume, incorrectly, that the PoA is excluded, when it isn't. Check the OP: no movie is specified so all of them apply.
Originally posted by N.
And I still disagree with that. Since when do we assume something is there unless specified it isn't? It's the other way around. We do not assume something without proof. Thats the way I've always seen the rules interpretated on KMC.
That's how it works, though. You can't make up rules that do not exist. The OP specifies the thread conditions. If the OP does not list a specific time-frame or movie, then all applicable movies and/or time frames are usable. This is similar to keeping a McClane thread open in a "sandbox" versus match with another character that also has a "sandbox" setup. I believe that particular thread has been done, too.
And, I've NEVER seen the rules interpreted that way. It's always about the OP and the thread conditions. The wider it's open, the worse threads gets unless it was intended to be that way.
Originally posted by N.
I agree, this thread should not have gotten past the first page. Though I disagree that Obi-Wan should get a Capital Ship under his command. It is not in his standard equipment, just as the dementors are not in Hogwarts.
Fair enough: at least you're willing to not give your chosen side more tools that they legitimately have while also denying your opposing side a similar "ultimate" weapon. If only everyone could compromise like that.
Originally posted by N.
You need to strap in to Cerebro, and its not exactly something you can fit into your pocket. Unless I've misinterpreted what you meant.
Yeah, RJ corrected me: the OP says that start at Hogwarts. Where, I dunno...cause Hogwarts is a gigantic place inside the castle alone. Then the grounds are rather large and that is part of Hogwarts, as well. So...anyway...where was I? Oh yeah, so, yeah, he doesn't get cerebro because he would have to travel back to the X-mansion to get cerebro some love.
Originally posted by N.
You mean that we can use anything from any movie even if it contradicts the timeframe? Like using feats from the sixth movie while using the dementors from the third?
Absolutely. This IS the "movie versus forum."
If you cannot or will not "pretend" that John McClane gets the SUV from Die Hard 4 with a couple of Missiles and the missile launcher from Die Hard 1, then versus discussions are not for you.
This would be similar to a hypothetical versus debate where we put Samehada into the hands of Bee and have him fight team Hawk as they were when they first fought: a hypothetical situation that could not occur because the sentient tool he gets occurs well after the Team Hawk battle. However, you would fully understand that debate. It's not different in the MVF.
Originally posted by N.
Bull. Oney. This is never even implied in the new rules. GTFO with this shit.
Never implied that we can't use movies to draw information, screen feats, and tools, for movie characters? AHA! 😆
Originally posted by N.
Its happening anyway, as you said, so I don't know what your point was. Nowhere in the rules is this said.
My point is obvious: the OP is supposed to cement the thread conditions in the first couple of posts. After that, there's no changing the conditions.
This includes forgetting to take away tools, powers, and abilities from one side because you forgot about it as you wrote he OP. This is why it's "happening" in this thread: the thread starter forgot to cement that in his OP.
Originally posted by N.
But that is [b]exactly what RJ did. Multiple pages in, after all his other arguements had failed he suddenly twisted the thread to allow him dementors. Bull. Shit.[/B]
If this was RJ's thread, you'd have a point. Since RJ is NOT changing the thread conditions, even a little bit, he's doing nothing wrong. However, if the thread starter tries to disallow the dementors, then that is bullshit: you can't change the thread conditions after the first few posts.
Do you see the difference and do you now see why we are disagreeing? If not, I think we should take it to PMs.
Originally posted by N.
They patrolled the grounds, but were not members of Hogwarts. And this thread is [b]Just Hogwarts.[/B]
And being a member of Hogwarts is not necessary as they were on the side of Hogwarts at one point and were under the ministry's control in the first 6 films: no matter what else you can think of, they are usable and always have been usable because of how open-ended the OP is.
And, yeah, "Hogwarts" constitutes Hogwarts. Hogwarts is comprised of:
The Castle.
The Secret Chamber.
And Hogwarts grounds.
Read: everything inside of the shield charms.
Originally posted by N.
Not really. They were deployed by a group completely seperate from Hogwarts itself to perform a task within the grounds of Hogwarts. I'm not seeing much of a difference here.
B-but...I ALREADY told you what the difference was: Dementors were deployed to protect Hogwarts: Death Eaters and Volde never were. 🙁
Originally posted by N.
It is not a Strawman, it cuts right to the heart of the issue. That the Dementors are completely independant from Hogwarts school with the only link being that they're near each other.
Incorrect and this is why you don't see it as a gigantic strawman: they weren't independent of Hogwarts. If they were, then they'd have free reign on all of those delicious happy thoughts from the oblivious magical little shits (All I can picture is little turds running around screaming "WEEEEEEEE!" 😆 )
Originally posted by N.
And if you consider them 'tools', then they fall under the Standard Equipment rules. Dementors are not standard guardians of Hogwarts, therefore they are not allowed.
There is no "standard equipment rules."
Now, the thread starter can certainly MAKE one.
A "standard equipment" rule only applies if the thread starter says so in the OP. On top of that, dementors would be at the disposal of 2 out of the 7 movies: the 3rd and 5th movies.
Also, they are not allowed IFF the thread starter specifies by either an explicit list of "allow-ables" or an exclusionary list. That's it. Neither of those conditions apply to the Dementors, so RJ can have at it with the dementors in this thread.
Originally posted by N.
The only reason they didn't attack was because they were under orders not to from the ministry. Even then they couldn't stop themselves. Here they are under no such thing (not even being in the thread for a start).
The "only" reason, eh?
So, the thread of having some of the most powerful wizards in all of magical magic funzees doesn't stop them? On top of that, the threat of losing access to "happy soul sucking" the rest of their lives isn't a deterrent, either?
Originally posted by N.
No.
Really? That's your response. K, I'll lighten up a bit more and add more humor, too:
I know you are but what am I?
Originally posted by N.
The Forbidden Forest is actually a part of the grounds. Hagrid keeps the Threstals in there in fact, and tends to the forest partially (first movie, looking after the unicorns).
Incorrect.
The forbidden forest is not part of the grounds. It borders the grounds, sure, but it is specifically NOT part of the magical human community. Do you remember the whole minotaur speech given and about their dislike for magical people? If the magical beings "owned" the forest, why would they dwell there and not go off and live in a place that they did not despise?
This is just one of many examples of why the grounds are definitely NOT part of the hogwarts. (That, and the shield clearly does NOT cover the forest.)
Originally posted by N.
You interrupted my conversation with RJ. 😛
I wouldn't call that a conversation: it was mostly you raping him with him interjecting with some good points every points. I.E. Dementors. As you can see, RJ and I disagree on this thread's outcome, which happens from time to time.
HOLY SHIT! That's a lot of words, Batman. I mean...DAMN!