Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
The Martian Manhunter should at least be on your list. (not saying he's number 1, but he's clearly ahead of many of the characters listed on the OP).
the list is pretty erratic to be only those in contention for "supreme"
Exodus/Emma are massive powerhouses, but not compared to White Crown or even Xavier
I don't care for any Jean grey arguments. Personally I think the people that drag her in trying to use jeans feats being the same as the Phoenix may as well just argue Thanos with the ig. Some times Jean is the most uber thing in all of creation and other times she isnt. Unlike scarlet witch whose power was her own...
And in this case I'll go with Franklin for the various already mentioned feats.
Originally posted by rotiart
I don't care for any Jean grey arguments. Personally I think the people that drag her in trying to use jeans feats being the same as the Phoenix may as well just argue Thanos with the ig. Some times Jean is the most uber thing in all of creation and other times she isnt. Unlike scarlet witch whose power was her own...And in this case I'll go with Franklin for the various already mentioned feats.
Jean was retconned to BE the Phoenix. I only chose Jean here anyway because the topic creator specified White Phoenix of the Crown in his list. She, in my opinion, has the best psionic feats.
Originally posted by Kontonit's iffy, if you believe, as many do, that it was an actual retcon and jean had been the phoenix all along as it can't account for the phoenix's history.
It was pretty well established in Warsong/Endsong. It's not like it was just mentioned in passing or vague dialogue. It was a major revelation to Jean lol
a more reasonable interpretation of events is that jean grey merely merged with the force at that particualr moment in the end of endsong and became one with it.
Originally posted by Uriel005
Your telling me that Franklin Richards is below prof X....
Is there a definitive answer established?
I am not saying more powerful overall, but more powerful telepath.
Better when characters have a weakness otherwise they are unstoppable and then stories need PIS and CIS to end the story
Originally posted by GRIMNIRok I thought you were talking about under stips for psionic supreme as Franklins powers are all psionic in nature and TP is but one aspect of psionics. Xavier would get murderstomped by a reality warp and there is not a damn thing he could do to stop Franklin if he decided to do it.
Is there a definitive answer established?I am not saying more powerful overall, but more powerful telepath.
Better when characters have a weakness otherwise they are unstoppable and then stories need PIS and CIS to end the story
Originally posted by 753
it's iffy, if you believe, as many do, that it was an actual retcon and jean had been the phoenix all along as it can't account for the phoenix's history.a more reasonable interpretation of events is that jean grey merely merged with the force at that particualr moment in the end of endsong and became one with it.
There is nothing iffy about it. The original story has Jean unleash her full power and rename herself Phoenix. Even when it was retconned she was said to connect with a primal force that when merged with her called itself the Phoenix, it changes nothing about the history of this otherwise nameless force, the official name Phoenix came from Jean not from the Force. It has been called the Phoenix in every back story about it because that is the name we know it as. Jean is not a host she is a piece of it. Death told her after it was Jeans soul that went to the afterlife when DP killed itself. Jean fully merged with it well before Endsong the process was happening as a result of her secondary mutation, the consciousness awoke but it was too late Jean neglected her Phoenix work and HTC came to pass, then emerged 150 years later and then completed the merge and accepting her role as White Phoenix in HCT.
the most reasonable interpretation is the one that is outlined by Marvel and that is Jean has always since her first encounter with the Phoenix wanted nothing to do with it, but it keeps coming back if Jean was not a piece then it would not always be waiting for her or seek her out and even confuse her "daughter" and clone for her, it would simply move on, Jean wanting to be Jean and nothing more is what keeps them seperate, when she gives in to what she is she and the Phoenix are complete. That being said White Phoenix, which is Jean Grey regardless of how people want to interpret things is psionic supreme, tk that can manipulate all atoms in the universe and amputate timelines and telepathy that can reach other points in space and change the way the world turns out with a simple push all without creating some alternate or pocket reality like legion did by messing with time or franklin did by using reality warping.
^ please, this makes no sense. the PF existed since the dawn of the universe - and before that, having birthed it after the last one died according to x-men forever - and has inhabitted a list of hosts before jean grey was ever born. everything about jean's connecion to it can be explained as her being a favoured host and that alternate future by morrison you mentioned showed quentin quire and a million others as hosts in the white room (mkraan crystal).
the entity has been called phoenix by characters not related to jean, includign abstracts.
jean has not always been the phoenix itself and while she may have merged with it by the end of endsong, this doesn't retcon the original explanation of the DP saga - that the power was all hers - back into continuity. clearly, the phoenix exists by itself, independent of jean and and JG herself has not always manifested the PF, even if one might claim she's had a lingering connection to it.