Kingpin ( classic) vs. Bruce Wayne ( no Batsuit) h2h only

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Doesn't matter. Val still retained his BODY and his skill which is the only reason that he was able to fight Bruce. Even an amnesiac and dying Val could take Fisk.

Why would he retain his skill if he couldn't even remember who he is? That makes no sense.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Why would he retain his skill if he couldn't even remember who he is? That makes no sense.

Originally posted by Starscream M
see bourne identity

Bourne had retrograde amnesia, that's different then what Val had.

Bruce and Val are both peak humans.
If Val DID lose his skill somehow, he wouldn't have lasted 10 seconds.
Starscream M already proved why he did retain his skill.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Bourne had retrograde amnesia, that's different then what Val had.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Bruce and Val are both peak humans.
If Val DID lose his skill somehow, he wouldn't have lasted 10 seconds.
Starscream M already proved why he did retain his skill.

Ummmm...no

Originally posted by Starscream M
well I was responding to your statement regarding how someone can retain skills yet not know who they are

With a completly different scenario that is drastically different here

Originally posted by -K-M-
Ummmm...no

They're both peak humans, actually Val is at a disadvantage here, he was in a coma and dying.

A person without any skill whatsoever and an inferior body can't beat an extremely skilled person with a superior body.

Jason Bourne retained all his skill even though he lost his memory.

Val was still in a weakened state and got the better.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Ummmm...yeah.

They're both peak humans, actually Val is at a disadvantage here, he was in a coma and dying.

A person without any skill whatsoever and an inferior body can't beat an extremely skilled person with a superior body.

Jason Bourne retained all his skill even though he lost his memory.

Ummm...no.

Val has superhuman feats thanks to his chi amping

He had some as I said earlier, but not all his memories.

Which isn't what happened to KK.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Val has superhuman feats thanks to his chi amping

Originally posted by -K-M-
He had some as I said earlier, but not all his memories.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Val wasn't able to "chi amp" in his fight with Bruce so moot point is moot; he would've lost in 5 seconds if the amnesia wasn't selective.

Val didn't lose all of his memories either.

DING! another reason why you shouldn't use that fight as an actual comparison.

Yeah he did and was referenced again later on.

lol!

You misunderstand me.

Bruce would've lost instantly if Val was able to amp chi ~ BUT ~ Val would've lost instantly if he forgot all of his skill as Bruce is a grandmaster.

Val retained enough of his basic skills to fight just like Jason Bourne.

Yes basic, not all his abilities and also Val coming out of his com/and dying from the virus is not the best example to base a skill level ranking with.

I like how I'm getting excuses that Wayne stalemating Val\beating people like Bane, Diana, and Grundy isn't enough basis to establish that he can take Fisk..

However, you guys are allowed to use high-end feats like Fisk beating Peter and Harry.

Sounds like B.S. to me 😬

I never mentioned anything about Fisk, I however added context to an example you brought up and nothing more.

On topic, Batman's high showings shouldn't be ignored.

Originally posted by -K-M-
I never mentioned anything about Fisk, I however added context to an example you brought up and nothing more.

On topic, Batman's high showings shouldn't be ignored.

i dont care what you say. 😎

Originally posted by -K-M-
I never mentioned anything about Fisk, I however added context to an example you brought up and nothing more.

Originally posted by King Castle
i ignore him dodging superman flight blitz, punching and heat vision.

i dont care what you say. 😎

Well yes some showings can be considered PIS, but when Batman has done similar things more then once you can't outright ignore them.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
I see.
Wayne's the closest thing Val has to a peer in martial-arts skill in comic book history other than Danny.
Add that to the fact that his intellect is second only to Reed Richards, his strength\durability aren't much lower than Fisk, and his speed is far greater; I really don't see him losing this fight at all.

Black Dragon?