Kingpin ( classic) vs. Bruce Wayne ( no Batsuit) h2h only

Grundy power lvl fluctuates to barely superhuman low end brick. it isnt a very stable character to use plus we leave out out pis moments for characters and gauge by power set..

Grundy could be ko'ed by fisk as well in certain situations just like Wildcat knocked the stuffing out of him.

Grundy's power level may fluctuate a lot but he's still far above Fisk even at his lowest 😬 Fisk couldn't have replicated that feat since he lacks the speed, skill, and intelligence to take out Grundy. Wayne is a beast that's taken out people like Bane and Diana...

Fisk has taken and beaten hobgoblin after spiderman failed at a special event.

you're joking right? fisk is highly trained, incredibly quick, and highly intelligent and tactical. put fisk in the same situation and he wouldve done grundy in as well

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
you're joking right? fisk is highly trained, incredibly quick, and highly intelligent and tactical. put fisk in the same situation and he wouldve done grundy in as well

You just described Bane! 😱

...Fisk defeating Solomon Grundy facepalm

dude, just stop.

you have bn skewing events since you got here.

no one here thinks that Fisk is going to hit or hang with Grundy but to believe that Grundy isnt a joke at his lowest incarnation is delusional.

also you have bn using PIS events for batman to begin with to support your argument.

how about you stick to a single tier of his h2h and peak maybe slight superhuman opponents to gauge how he does in a solo fight.

Heh, I love the experts of false knowledge in this thread.

Pretty damn amusing.

I like how I'm using "CIS\PIS" events such as Wayne defeating Grundy yet you guys somehow aren't when you use those same CIS\PIS showings of Fisk defeating Parker and Osbourne. Wayne's defeated countless people of various skill and power that would give Fisk trouble such as Diana, Bane, Chesire, Dick, Cass, Ra's, and Talia. Hell, Bruce even fought on par with VAL himself who is a little above Danny Rand level.

Val got the best of Bruce, though. Even taking away his utility belt in combat.

one the OP specifically made clear which Fisk we should use. his feats and history are part of his character as is KK.

side note you are forgetting that KK was sick and dying bats had his armor and flight ring and Fisk body is no where similar to the ppl you mention nor have the same lvl of durability feats as Fisk on panel.

again Classic Fisk has fought and or beaten: Cap, Red skull, spiderman, Daredevil, Hobgoblin, Punisher... so to say he isnt quick or a good fighter is a gross understatement.

now add the fact that Batman has his gear taken away he is going to have far more difficult time then he has with others while wearing kevlar or using his tech.

Danny Rand is a peer for Val.

Val kicks around people like Mon-El, Jo, and Kara Zor-El.

Wayne managed to fight on par with Val; him losing his utility belt means nothing since it was an H2H fight.

Fisk could never, ever hope to match Danny let alone Val.

VAL was brainwashed into thinking he was Trident. Don't forget that. Plus he just woke from a coma and still managed to look better than bruce.

perhaps not but at the end of the day classic Kingpin has manhandled Cap and Red skull with his cloned body. i dont see Bat's being any stronger nor superior physically or skill wise to make the outcome with him different.

Val at the time didn't have full access to his memories when he fought Batman

i put that Val at barely above bat's in skill and i would say h2h or give Cap a flight ring he would have done a lot better then bruce stalemate or win.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
VAL was brainwashed into thinking he was Trident. Don't forget that. Plus he just woke from a coma and still managed to look better than bruce.

Originally posted by Lord KMC
Val being brainwashed doesn't mean anything since he retained his skills. Also, Wayne isn't a person that goes around beat the hell out of kids; he was on the defensive for a reason.

Val at that time didn't even know he was Val.

it's also foolish to think that a guy who just woke up from a coma, amnesia and is dying would retain all his fighting knowledge or fight at his best...

might as well have Daredevil or cap fight wolverine in h2h after suffering a long month adamantium poisoning and being controlled by a laptop as him fighting at his best skills intact.drylaugh

Originally posted by -K-M-
Val at that time didn't even know he was Val.