Originally posted by leonidasno way
you could be right PG. my point stands though--he's had the best feats of any elder (aside from champion's very first appearance where he pretty much f'd up everyone OUTSIDE the ring) and GM seemed to hold him in some esteem in that ss arc. i'd not be surprised to find out runner was in GM's class at some point. admittedly, i'm guessing though. it's just the vibe i get from the character. 😬
contest of champions (original)
read that shit
Originally posted by psycho gundam
i take it you've read contest of champions, being a kang fan and allcollector got raped by korvac though, quite embarassing
Yep. Korvac is uber so losing to him is no shame -we never actually got how strong Korvac was, even if I know Collector's uberness is more or less a retcon-.
Funny enough, the Grandmaster went on and summoned Korvac is an Avengers Annual 😐
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I know the issue number. And I'm telling you that there were other factors in play. Mongoose IIRC blasted Hercules and Thor out of the air with some asteroid buster, then he dropped gas or something similar to leave Thor weakened, and dazed/disoriented. Only then did he follow up with a blitz.
you're right. 👆 dug around and rechecked the issue. he did throw some gas or other to disorient him before he blitzed. thor was amazed at his speed and power though and he did physically pummel thor and seperate him from the hammer. but i'm good with throwing it out since there was the gas.
Thor trumping Mongoose:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsMongoose1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsMongoose2.jpgThor spinning at higher end speeds:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/SpinsMjolnir2xlight.jpg1+1=?
point was that runner is FAR FAR faster than mongoose who himself was able to land 100 blows before thor could land one.
What do you mean specific to the locale?
the rooftop. runner hit thanos and was lightyears away. runner could easily hit and run and be out of range of something like that blast.
If the Runner were to blitz Thor, he would be in a very close vicinity to Thor almost always. Thor not only teleported the demons surrounding him, but the demons dog piling Ghost Rider as well.
and gone before thor could summon anything like that to use.
baka Now you're just attaching arbitrary limits.
not at all. how wide do you think he could make that thing?? and again, he sent them back to where they came from. that was more 'banishment' than teleporting. runner is FROM this universe. no way to say he could do that to runner or anyone from this universe.
We know Thor can has nigh infinite teleportation capabilities We know Thor can use lightning as a method of teleportation:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonBloodAxe4.jpgHe simply used the tactic in AOE style.
can't see it ever hitting someone as fast as runner. and even if he did teleport runner, runner could just run back to the battle. only way i could see thor doing it would be with a dimensional portal that runner ran into, or was somehow sucked into, ala what he tried with nefaria. in a comic i could see it happening. in a forum--MAYBE. runner really doesn't seem that bright. BFR is the only way thor would have a chance to win this imo.
Thor has shown speed and illustrated impressive speed past his showings with Mongoose.
meh. he has a couple, but nothing to suggest he could handle this level of speed and power combined.
Lulz. Runner has never shown phasing in battle, Runner has never shown that he would blitz an opponent to a knock out much less to death. You're scenarios are played out as if you're controlling the Runner, and Thor's a statue.
thor would pretty much be a statue compared to runner imo. same as thanos was.
The demons swarmed the roof. Thor teleported all the demons on the roof. Simple.
exactly. the roof. and i see no plausible way to say he could do that with runner pummeling him and moving as fast as he does.
When Makkari won, he hit light speed and burned the Runner.Since that's your stance, prove it. I'm not going to go comparing the two scenes. The only way I can see you having any argument is if that was the first time Makkari went light speed.
can't recall all the details. i think he traded powers for more speed, then learned some "secret" that allowed him to attain "absolute speed" or something. i know he was FAR faster than at any other point--that was his goal--to become faster. and he achieved it. he became so fast that he was stuck in "hyperspeed". it was clear he was faster since he was in the first race against people like cap marvel and QUICKSILVER, for god's sake. then he managed to get into the second race and actually win. there definietly was some big deal/PIS made about 'lightspeed' when he got the secret, but i don't recall all the details. point is--he was WAY faster than at any previous time. certainly far faster than when he was against hermes.
By the way, every speedy opponent Thor's faced whether it's Mongoose, Quicksilver, Silver Surfer Thor has defeated.
and you can't deny thor has also had plenty of issues with guys like cobra and quicksilver in the past, and ss isn't s blitz-style character. runner is just a little beyond both mongoose and quicksilver.....
You claimed that he said so. Go find it. I'm not obligated to take you on your word.
but.... i don't care if you take my word. i just thought you'd want to be sure you were arguing the right thread. doesn't matter to me if you do or not.
In your opinion.
which is what i've said all along. 🙂
overall--thor HAS had trouble with speedsters. does he have some decent showings where he has been able to counter? sure. never said he didn't. but having trouble with guys far slower than runner makes me think there is no way he'd be able to handle runner's combination of overall speed and power.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
no waycontest of champions (original)
read that shit
😆
have it. one of my faves as a kid. that was GM's first appearance though. a little like champion's. both seemed unbeatable and uber cool to boot. that was a long time ago though. THAT GM would have simply killed thanos in TQ. not sure he'll ever show that level of power again. he DID show some good power in that west coast avengers arc though. meh. like i said, i'm guessing. still, if the 2 of them fought, i wouldn't be too surprised to see runner hold his own. if GM went high end though, you're right--his time powers would likely nullify runner's speed.
Im going with the amp. Not in the way a true amp is which would be making Runner move faster. Since the Runner is all about speed, his mind probably utilized the space gem's power within the framework of how his mind thinks. He wasn't teleporting huge distances at a time. I think he was teleporting very small distances giving him the idea that he was running faster. Almost like he was porting a step here a step there from time to time while he was running or while he thought he was just running. He never really knew how the space gem worked to begin with. If he did, this leads me to believe he would have ported extremely vast distances just like that with him knowing about it. He was accidentally using the space gem on how he views himself. He's an arrogant bastich who thinks himself the fastest thing out there! If I was to explain how he did it, I'm going with Rage's explanation of bending space etc. etc.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusDo Thanos'shields activate instantly, or do they require him to consciously activate them? If it's the latter, then the same reason he didn't utilize the gems during Runner's blitz would also apply to using his shields -- ie. he simply didn't have the chance.
Disagreed completely. Shields alone would have been all Thanos would need.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusNegatory. Thanos never said the gem was 'consistently amping' Runner. Not once. In fact, that was never even alluded to...
Like I said, the Gem was consistently amping Runner. He thought his speed was being amped but he was actually manipulating space. And sometimes, he mentally teleported perhaps like Pip.
-Thanos-
"Your gem didn't make you any faster. It allowed you to subconsciously manipulate space. That's why you sometimes arrived at a destination before you even realized you were heading for it. It's called mental teleportation":
http://img517.imageshack.us/i/thanosquest216.jpg/
Mental teleportation is the only 'amp' Thanos said Runner received with the gem -- and even that was an ability he only was able to utilize "sometimes". And again: subconscious/mental teleportation is NOT what Runner displayed vs. Thanos. His raw battle speed is what we saw.
I guess it's all semantics at this point, really. I can't call your personal interpretation wrong, and you can't call mine wrong (hence the circular argument that has formed.)
Originally posted by Galan007
I guess it's all semantics at this point, really. I can't call your personal interpretation wrong, and you can't call mine wrong (hence the circular argument that has formed.)
pretty much. tough to debate runner when he has so few appearances. i agree with you though--the speed he showed was his own. that much at least appears to be supported on panel.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusThanos has used omni directional blasts at least 3 times.
Fair enough. Outside of shields and omnidirectional energy projection (Has Thanos ever done this?) I don't think Thanos has anything else in his arsenal effective against the Runner. The Gems not taken into account of course.
Originally posted by leonidas
you're right. 👆 dug around and rechecked the issue. he did throw some gas or other to disorient him before he blitzed. thor was amazed at his speed and power though and he did physically pummel thor and seperate him from the hammer. but i'm good with throwing it out since there was the gas.
That gas was created specifically to weaken and disorient Thor IIRC so of course it’s not applicable.
Originally posted by leonidas
point was that runner is FAR FAR faster than mongoose who himself was able to land 100 blows before thor could land one.
The point is that Thor can and has countered speed advantages. You keep bringing up the Mongoose scene when he have just established that there were outside factors.
Originally posted by leonidas
the rooftop. runner hit thanos and was lightyears away. runner could easily hit and run and be out of range of something like that blast.
How does that make it specific to the locale? You made it seem like that tactic was only applicable on a roof top or something.
The Runner was always in a close vicinity to Thanos. The only time he ran a great distance away, he was f*cking around or some such. And to make matters worse, Thanos was clearly able to track him.
Originally posted by leonidas
and gone before thor could summon anything like that to use.
baka
Originally posted by leonidas
not at all. how wide do you think he could make that thing?? and again, he sent them back to where they came from. that was more 'banishment' than teleporting. runner is FROM this universe. no way to say he could do that to runner or anyone from this universe.
Wide enough to cover the entire roof which is more than enough to capture the Runner in the blast.
facepalm That wasn’t a banishment. That was teleportation. We’ve seen Thor use lightning as a method of teleportation. He simply made it an AOE type tactic. Stop making up arbitrary limits for Thor’s abilities because you don’t like their capabilities.
Thor has always had the ability to teleport. He doesn’t banish beings to their home dimension. He teleports them there. Looking at Thor’s long history of teleportation, at this point it’d be up to you to prove he couldn’t use it on the Runner.
Originally posted by leonidas
can't see it ever hitting someone as fast as runner. and even if he did teleport runner, runner could just run back to the battle. only way i could see thor doing it would be with a dimensional portal that runner ran into, or was somehow sucked into, ala what he tried with nefaria. in a comic i could see it happening. in a forum--MAYBE. runner really doesn't seem that bright. BFR is the only way thor would have a chance to win this imo.
I can. If Surfer can hit the Runner with a cosmic blast:
Then Thor can tag him with an AOE type attack. Thor has dimensional teleportation capabilities.
Battle field removal is not Thor’s only option. Just the simplest one.
Originally posted by leonidas
meh. he has a couple, but nothing to suggest he could handle this level of speed and power combined.
More than a couple.
If the Surfer and Thanos can react to the Runner, Thor can at least make a defensive or offensive play.
Originally posted by leonidas
thor would pretty much be a statue compared to runner imo. same as thanos was.
If you say so.
Originally posted by leonidas
exactly. the roof. and i see no plausible way to say he could do that with runner pummeling him and moving as fast as he does.
What the f*ck does the roof have to do with anything? Are you just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks?
The ability isn’t limited to that specific location.
😬 If he can do it while being dog piled, he can do it while Runner’s punching him.
Originally posted by leonidas
can't recall all the details. i think he traded powers for more speed, then learned some "secret" that allowed him to attain "absolute speed" or something. i know he was FAR faster than at any other point--that was his goal--to become faster. and he achieved it. he became so fast that he was stuck in "hyperspeed". it was clear he was faster since he was in the first race against people like cap marvel and QUICKSILVER, for god's sake. then he managed to get into the second race and actually win. there definietly was some big deal/PIS made about 'lightspeed' when he got the secret, but i don't recall all the details. point is--he was WAY faster than at any previous time. certainly far faster than when he was against hermes.
Like I said, prove it.
Originally posted by leonidas
and you can't deny thor has also had plenty of issues with guys like cobra and quicksilver in the past, and ss isn't s blitz-style character. runner is just a little beyond both mongoose and quicksilver.....
What are you talking about? Cobra was but a nuisance who relied on bullshit and tricks to keep Thor delayed; the only thing his speed allowed him to do was dodge a throw from Mjolnir here and there. Quicksilver was also never one of import. He was swiftly defeated in their only battle.
Originally posted by leonidas
but.... i don't care if you take my word. i just thought you'd want to be sure you were arguing the right thread. doesn't matter to me if you do or not.
You claimed it. Back it up. I'm not going to waste my time searching for the quote.
Originally posted by leonidas
which is what i've said all along. 🙂overall--thor HAS had trouble with speedsters. does he have some decent showings where he has been able to counter? sure. never said he didn't. but having trouble with guys far slower than runner makes me think there is no way he'd be able to handle runner's combination of overall speed and power.
At least we're clear.
Lulz. I bet I can name a lot more instances where Thor illustrates speed or overcomes it in comparison to the number of times you can name Thor having any trouble with speedsters.
Another hearty lulz.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusI have some problems here, Rage.
And to make matters worse, Thanos was clearly able to track him.I can. If Surfer can hit the Runner with a cosmic blast:
If the Surfer and Thanos can react to the Runner, Thor can at least make a defensive or offensive play.
a.) The only 'tracking' Thanos did is use what was left of his instrumentation to detect that Runner's speed had doubled. Big whoop.
b.) The only blast Surfer hit Runner with, was one that he [Runner] seemed to willingly embrace:
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8097/runner4.jpg
(and as you can see, it caused absolutely no damage.)
c.) Thanos did not react to Runner from an offensive/defensive standpoint. He simply used his instrumentation to approximate Runner's speed (which really isn't an impressive feat on Thanos' end.) For instance, I know light travels at 186,000 miles/second -- but that doesn't mean I can react faster than it moves. As for Surfer, he was utterly embarrassed by Runner's speed -- even after he got pissed. Here's the whole fight:
http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/1989/runner1.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/1352/runner2.jpg
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1184/runner3.jpg
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8097/runner4.jpg
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/4512/runner5.jpg
Point: I don't think Runner's battles against Thanos/Surfer can really be used to build a case for Thor.
Originally posted by Galan007
I have some problems here, Rage.a.) The only 'tracking' Thanos did is use what was left of his instrumentation to detect that Runner's speed had doubled. Big whoop.
b.) The only blast Surfer hit Runner with, was one that he [Runner] seemed to willingly embrace:
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8097/runner4.jpg
(and as you can see, it caused absolutely no damage.)c.) Thanos did not react to Runner from an offensive/defensive standpoint. He simply used his instrumentation to approximate Runner's speed (which really isn't an impressive feat on Thanos' end.) For instance, I know light travels at 186,000 miles/second -- but that doesn't mean I can react faster than it moves. As for Surfer, he was utterly embarrassed by Runner's speed -- even after he got pissed. Here's the whole fight:
http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/1989/runner1.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/1352/runner2.jpg
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1184/runner3.jpg
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8097/runner4.jpg
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/4512/runner5.jpgPoint: I don't think Runner's battles against Thanos/Surfer can really be used to build a case for Thor.
Meh, I'll give that tracking wasn't the best word to use. Still, my entire argument thus far is that if people want to argue a blitz to ko tactic for Runner, then Thor will use the aforementioned tactic I specified.
If Thanos has time to look at his instruments to check Runner's speed, that helps my case. If Surfer has the ability to let off cosmic blasts before Runner gets to him and even strike him, damage or no damage, that helps my case.
I haven't argued thus far that Thor will knock out Runner as I have no idea how much it will take to put him down.
Originally posted by Galan007
Do Thanos'shields activate instantly, or do they require him to consciously activate them? If it's the latter, then the same reason he didn't utilize the gems during Runner's blitz would also apply to using his shields -- ie. he simply didn't have the chance.
Depends I guess.
If Runner did catch Thanos by surprise in his initial blitz, they still stopped and had a chat.
You seem to keep forgetting the two page gap in his attack. Thanos could have easily activated his shields or used the time gem in that time span. So like I said,
Originally posted by Galan007
Negatory. Thanos never said the gem was 'consistently amping' Runner. Not once. In fact, that was never even alluded to...-Thanos-
"Your gem didn't make you any faster. It allowed you to subconsciously manipulate space. That's why you sometimes arrived at a destination before you even realized you were heading for it. It's called mental teleportation":
http://img517.imageshack.us/i/thanosquest216.jpg/Mental teleportation is the only 'amp' Thanos said Runner received with the gem -- and even that was an ability he only was able to utilize "sometimes". And again: subconscious/mental teleportation is NOT what Runner displayed vs. Thanos. His raw battle speed is what we saw.
I guess it's all semantics at this point, really. I can't call your personal interpretation wrong, and you can't call mine wrong (hence the circular argument that has formed.)
Well, I guess it's just a matter of intepretation at this point. If you assume that Thanos claim of sometimes alluded to the very usage of the Gem, then you're argument would be right, and vise verse if you read as I have.
I agree, semantics.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusCool beans.
Meh, I'll give that tracking wasn't the best word to use. Still, my entire argument thus far is that if people want to argue a blitz to ko tactic for Runner, then Thor will use the aforementioned tactic I specified.If Thanos has time to look at his instruments to check Runner's speed, that helps my case. If Surfer has the ability to let off cosmic blasts before Runner gets to him and even strike him, damage or no damage, that helps my case.
I haven't argued thus far that Thor will knock out Runner as I have no idea how much it will take to put him down.
But to be fair, Thanos only tracked Runner after he ran really, REALLY far away -- or as Thanos put it, Runner ran: "into the depths of the ether." Had Thanos received said info from his instruments when Runner was at point blank range, your opinion would have much more validity.
As for Surfer blasting Runner: I don't think that means a whole lot. Runner was riding on Surfer's own board when that happened, after all. Plus, he didn't make any efforts to avoid the attack. He just... Tanked it. However, when Runner was moving under his own speed, we saw him casually toy with Surfer, AND dodge his energy attacks. So there's that. *shrug*
Anywho, I know you aren't arguing for Thor KO'ing Runner. It just seems like his battles with the aforementioned are being a bit underplayed. That's all I'm saying. 🙂
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus👆
Well, I guess it's just a matter of intepretation at this point. If you assume that Thanos claim of sometimes alluded to the very usage of the Gem, then you're argument would be right, and vise verse if you read as I have.I agree, semantics.
Originally posted by Galan007
Cool beans.But to be fair, Thanos only tracked Runner after he ran really, REALLY far away -- or as Thanos put it, Runner ran: "into the depths of the ether." Had Thanos received said info from his instruments when Runner was at point blank range, your opinion would have much more validity.
As for Surfer blasting Runner: I don't think that means a whole lot. Runner was riding on Surfer's own board when that happened, after all. Plus, he didn't make any efforts to avoid the attack. He just... Tanked it. However, when Runner was moving under his own speed, we saw him casually toy with Surfer, AND dodge his energy attacks. So there's that. *shrug*
Anywho, I know you aren't arguing for Thor KO'ing Runner. It just seems like his battles with the aforementioned are being a bit underplayed. That's all I'm saying. 🙂
The fact that he tracked him is enough. Leo argued that the Runner would run far away if Thor unleashed an attack and run back, beating him to death or something similarly foolish.
Point. I forgot that the Runner was on Surfer's board.
Meh, I'm not impressed by either battles. Either way said battles show that Thor can react or at the very least get attacks off. That's my main argument and it's all Thor really needs to do to win.
Even a tactic such as this would be sufficient:
Thor trumping Mongoose:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsMongoose1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsMongoose2.jpgThor spinning at higher end speeds:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/SpinsMjolnir2xlight.jpg1+1=?
