'Jesus was not the messiah'

Originally posted by red g jacks
nope, i'm saying that time in our universe is not necessarily the only time to exist/have existed, though our version was presumably created in the big bang. other universes presumably would've had their own 'big bangs' and their own creation of time and space.

also that the period prior to the big bang (singularity) was not necessarily eternal just because 'time' and 'space' as we know it did not exist. things operate differently on the quantum level, in many ways that often seem to defy common sense. if you take the idea that 'time was created in the big bang,' then i can honestly see how the argument you are making is a common sense argument. if singularity had no time, then it was eternal. but the 'experts' don't agree with that.

So you're saying that the time in those quotes is just OUR time? That makes no sense. Time is time. If time existed before the Big Bang, then the Big Bang did not cause time. If time existed in ANY FORM then the Big Bang did not cause time, it just changed it. These quotes specifically say that time came into existence at the Big Bang. It was created then, not recycled from a past form of itself.

And I still don't see how something can be outside of time, yet not. That's like saying I'm sitting and not sitting at the same time. It's logically impossible. Eternal simply means outside of time. If there was no time, then it can't be inside of time. If you want to claim otherwise, I need some evidence.

Originally posted by Mindship
None of us are physicists or cosmologists. I just wanted your opinion on the timelessness of the quantum world, since you apparently feel a realm w/o time is where God acts from.

We're getting into unknown area's now. I know little to nothing on the "realm" God acts in. All I know is He is outside of time.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
All science is a study and testing process to conclude what is or isnt true. It would be absurd to believe that tommorrow, for example, that if Earths gravity remains unmolested that you wouldn't fall down towards the floor if you were to jump from a height..

Thats not gonna change tommorrow. No amount of prayer or imagination will hake it happen.

I never made any claim that it would.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Science says so. It understands enough to make suppositions based on previous tested outcomes, unlike the guys who wrote those texts. It understands stuff well enough to make the computers that you're typing on now... thats a hell of a lot more reliable proof than 2000 years of broken promises and lies.

There isn't much of a point here, just religion bashing. We're trying to have a peaceful, rational debate here.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Creationists are making HUGE claims backed by zero evidence.
(When there should have been after all this time....)

I disagree. There is plenty of evidence, I've been discussion some of here in this thread if you bothered to read it.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Science is at least based by reliable tested means.
So im with Science here.

So am I. I don't think science and religion necessarily contradict each other at all.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I also think its a needless and ill advised leap in logic that if the universe had a beginning (which is debatable) that whatever caused that beginning had a consciousness (even more debatable) was any being known to mankind til this day in any religion.

I've been discussion this very point for quite a few pages now and I'm not going to repeat myself again. Read over my past posts, it's all there.

Your accusations of religion bashing are unfounded.
I stated the truth....unless you wanna prove that proof of the god as first cause has been presented, my comment stands.

You maintained that science is refuted, updated a lot. I proved with that analogy that that might be true, but certain basics are bankable.
Basics that contradict religion directly.

Originally posted by TacDavey
We're getting into unknown area's now. I know little to nothing on the "realm" God acts in. All I know is He is outside of time.

I don't think science and religion necessarily contradict each other at all.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Christianity, Judaism and Islam as mainstream religions have borrowed the most from the Symerian religions.

Hebrews interpreted/borrowed many of the Sumerian myths - from Adam and Eve, to Eden to great flood..etc. Heaps of other things in the OT are actual Sumerian stories, slightly changed, or in cases of certain prayers and/or hymns completely copied.

This later incorporated into Christianity and Islam.

With this in mind, I think the argument of whether Jesus was a messiah or not are rather trivial.
Real interesting argument would be going back to the Sumerian myths and discussing further possible interpretations...
Actually, that would be very interesting.

The Torah, the Gospel and the Qur'an, for purposes of moral instruction, describe events, places and people that predate them back towards the beginning of humanity. God said His message was for all of mankind, and indeed He said He appointed prophet/messengers from among all the peoples of the earth. In this context, treating the Sumerians like they invented the Abrahamic concepts is just as ridiculous as saying the Jews invented God. There is just one message of God. We should not be surprised to find it popping up in varying places throughout history.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Your accusations of religion bashing are unfounded.
I stated the truth....unless you wanna prove that proof of the god as first cause has been presented, my comment stands.

You maintained that science is refuted, updated a lot. I proved with that analogy that that might be true, but certain basics are bankable.
Basics that contradict religion directly.

I fully accept that science has concepts that we can be sure of beyond reasonable doubt. I fail to see which one's contradict religion, though.

Originally posted by Mindship
This is making you uncomfortable. I shall desist.

"Uncomfortable" isn't the right word, I don't think, I simply can't answer questions about what realm God exists in. If He exists in one separate from ours or not. Quite simply, I just don't know.

Originally posted by TacDavey
"Uncomfortable" isn't the right word, I don't think, I simply can't answer questions about what realm God exists in. If He exists in one separate from ours or not. Quite simply, I just don't know.

Just thought you might be interested.

Originally posted by Mindship
Update: check out the March 2011 edition of Discover magazine. There's an article in it -- "The Physics of the Divine" -- which discusses pretty much the question I posed to you: about God and the quantum realm. It even brings up the phenomenon of entanglement. There are some physicists, apparently, who wonder if such phenomena could be empirical signs of God's influence.

Just thought you might be interested.

I would. Thanks.

has it been proven that the stories of mithra and horus came before jesuss?

Yes.

oh ok yea i just read most of the posts here, but there are no hard similarities

May I suggest you read The Hero's Journey, by Joseph Campbell. Basically, it identifies a universal storyline that appears across time and cultures.

not now

sorry for the double post, but i read the suppose similarities of Jesus and osiris also mithra. i don't see any.

it's not just Mithra but other various figures from Rome going back down to Egypt mythology and Mesopotamia.

Simon the wise and mithra were just one of many......

you have myths that are not just similar birth stories of being born of a virgin son of a god but also titles like: Savior, son of god, morning star.

than you have imagery using halo's to show divinity a symbol used for Egyptian gods ala the sun disk even the angels were samurian in origin which many gods had angelic appearance with wings.

there is the fish god and who has been referred as the fisher of men iirc you can also find Emanuel miracles being duplicated centuries/thousands of years before he was even born by other savior/gods..

YouTube video

Originally posted by King Castle
it's not just Mithra but other various figures from Rome going back down to Egypt mythology and Mesopotamia.

Simon the wise and mithra were just one of many......

you have myths that are not just similar birth stories of being born of a virgin son of a god but also titles like: Savior, son of god, morning star.

than you have imagery using halo's to show divinity a symbol used for Egyptian gods ala the sun disk even the angels were samurian in origin which many gods had angelic appearance with wings.

there is the fish god and who has been referred as the fisher of men iirc you can also find Emanuel miracles being duplicated centuries/thousands of years before he was even born by other savior/gods..

YouTube video

BNf-P_5u_Hw&feature=related

^ list of gods savior and background all overlapping jesus story

ive watched that about two years ago. if you want please, post the similarities of Jesus and which over god.

*ever

Horus: Son the Light, battles the dark, Seth.
Born dec. 25 of the virgin Isis Mary, birth accompanied by the star of the east, three kings followed to adorn him. at age 12 prodigal teacher at 30 was baptized and started ministry. 12 disciples and traveled.

miracles: healed the sick walked on water.

titles: the truth, the light, son of god, lamb of god...

betrayed crucified, dead 3 days and resurrected

heres a link how the similarities are very vague
http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jesus_similarities.html