Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Zigi my friend, many scholars, priests and pastors try to understand some of the Bible and interpret it. Wars have been fought over it (Catholism & Protestantism). That's why there are so many denominations of Christianity.Many believe in the "Big Bang Theory" - can you prove it happened? Nope. You rely on some science that has been proven false. Evolution is the next hot topic - can you prove it? Nope. A chimp is our closest "relative" but why can't human DNA be combatable with monkey? The Soviets tried it in the 30s and failed. I can write a lot more evidence, but I lack the time due to the fact that I have to get back to work.
Rebutall?
Your first paragraph doesn't address my last post, and why we should believe the Bible if you say we lack the ability to understand it.
The second simply reveals a poor understanding of what we know and have proven via empirical study. I'll be honest and say that your attacks on Big Bang and evolution are sorely lacking, and it's likely you don't have the requisite knowledge on them to argue them coherently. I'll address your individual points below, but doubt that any progress will be made in our argument until you have a better understanding of the mechanisms involved in evolution and the nature of the universe.
First, proving something happened is not the same as having valid reason for believing it. If pressed by a non-believer, you'd have a hard time proving beyond doubt that the earth is spherical. Yet you believe the Earth is round (or if you don't, this conversation is worthless). You base this on observations made by scientific studies, as well as logical arguments posed to you. And if we take reality to its fullest existential end, it can be said that we can't really prove anything in an objective sense. But there are valid reasons for believing in the roundness of the Earth. In other words, scientific "faith" in facts about our universe is not blind faith, it is based in empirical study and independently corroborated data.
Second, what science has been proven false that discredits the Big Bang theory of creation? Be specific, I can't argue against completely vague statements.
Third, what do you mean by compatible (I assume that's the word you meant to use)? If you mean it how I originally read it, different species are by their very definition beings whose DNA is not compatible. Related or not, we aren't chimps and vice-versa because of our DNA. You'll also have to elaborate on what the Russian scientists tried in the 30's (not that anything that old should really be counted as counter-evidence, but I'll humor you)...I can't comment on something you haven't explained in enough detail to understand.
i love it when people who cant understand and or never read the bible quote/use theories from others who also cant understand and/or never read the bible to disprove the bible. seriously, there is nothing magical about reading the bible and studying it. if the average wannabe bible critic did, they might not say such idiotic things. the only person proven to be 'not who he claimed to be' is the you tuber himself. there has yet to be any true contradictions to be mentioned. as for digi, i think who mentioned 'sumarians', you show ignorance. Of course they have very similar histories and stories as hebrews, they are the same races. Both are semites. same with hebrews and ancient assyrians. They also have an identical creation, adam, satan, flood story etc. just with diff names. over 80% of ancient cultures have nearly identical stories. logic dictates that with so many identical stories from people who never met there must be truth to the stories.
as for jesus being the messiah, there was a study by Chuck Missler, a historian, published that said if we assume the old testament is true, by probability alone it's in the area of a trillion trillion trillion to one of someone fulfilling just the four or five of the prophesies the historical jesus fulfilled that secular contemporaries with no reason to lie, have confirmed as fact. i.e when he was born and killed(daniel said to the day when messiah would be born and killed). where he was born. how he was born. who killed him, how he died and with and how he was buried. By probability alone he had to be messiah
Originally posted by long pigits not actually about contradictions per se, its about the validity of the proposed 'fulfilled prophecies'
i love it when people who cant understand and or never read the bible quote/use theories from others who also cant understand and/or never read the bible to disprove the bible. seriously, there is nothing magical about reading the bible and studying it. if the average wannabe bible critic did, they might not say such idiotic things. the only person proven to be 'not who he claimed to be' is the you tuber himself. there has yet to be any true contradictions to be mentioned. as for digi, i think who mentioned 'sumarians', you show ignorance. Of course they have very similar histories and stories as hebrews, they are the same races. Both are semites. same with hebrews and ancient assyrians. They also have an identical creation, adam, satan, flood story etc. just with diff names. over 80% of ancient cultures have nearly identical stories. logic dictates that with so many identical stories from people who never met there must be truth to the stories.
Originally posted by long pigi want you to expand on this. post a source or something.
as for jesus being the messiah, there was a study by Chuck Missler, a historian, published that said if we assume the old testament is true, by probability alone it's in the area of a trillion trillion trillion to one of someone fulfilling just the four or five of the prophesies the historical jesus fulfilled that secular contemporaries with no reason to lie, have confirmed as fact. i.e when he was born and killed(daniel said to the day when messiah would be born and killed). where he was born. how he was born. who killed him, how he died and with and how he was buried. By probability alone he had to be messiah
i was under the impression we don't actually know what day jesus was born/killed on
Originally posted by long pig
as for jesus being the messiah, there was a study by Chuck Missler, a historian, published that said if we assume the old testament is true, by probability alone it's in the area of a trillion trillion trillion to one of someone fulfilling just the four or five of the prophesies the historical jesus fulfilled that secular contemporaries with no reason to lie, have confirmed as fact. i.e when he was born and killed(daniel said to the day when messiah would be born and killed). where he was born. how he was born. who killed him, how he died and with and how he was buried. By probability alone he had to be messiah
Chuck Missler isn't a historian, he's a mathematician and devotee of Hal Lindsy. I should know, my parents are close friends of the idiot.
This is the same Chuck Missler that claims that if evolution is true, he should be able to randomly open a jar pf peanut butter and find life.
so we finally admit, the highly touted contradictions aren't contradictions, they are just copy n pasted misunderstandings by the biblicaly illiterate critics. i want you guys to find contradictions on your own instead of repeating someone elses. Yes we know to the day and hour when jesus was born and died. biblicaly and secular writtings agree. Dr missler is a historian and mathematical wiz. He's wrong about a lot but not this. as for the validity of the fulfilled prophecies of jesus, less evidence is required in court today to prove a fact than back then. if the thousands of witnessess of jesus miracles from the bible testified in court today, the judge would declare jesus messiah. even those who never believed he was messiah absolutely believed in his miracles. every pharasee and every nay sayer never questioned his power. they question where he got the power. the talmud, written by those who hated jesus, admit his supernatural power. every miracle in the gospel is backed as fact in talmud. it happened
sure digi. have at it. but as soon as you start saying it's all a big conspiracy by the church then stop. there are only two possibilities when it comes to the messiah. either jesus, who did everything the messiah was to do, was the messiah. or there is on such thing as a messiah meaning the whole bible is false. and since one can prove with 100% accuracy the bible isn't all false, we have no choice but to say jesus was messiah.
Originally posted by long pignever once did i put forth the claim that they were contradictions. they're 'prophecies' which christians claim jesus fulfilled. i think you saw the word 'contradiction' on the picture in the 4th vid and got excited.
so we finally admit, the highly touted contradictions aren't contradictions, they are just copy n pasted misunderstandings by the biblicaly illiterate critics. i want you guys to find contradictions on your own instead of repeating someone elses. Yes we know to the day and hour when jesus was born and died. biblicaly and secular writtings agree. Dr missler is a historian and mathematical wiz. He's wrong about a lot but not this. as for the validity of the fulfilled prophecies of jesus, less evidence is required in court today to prove a fact than back then. if the thousands of witnessess of jesus miracles from the bible testified in court today, the judge would declare jesus messiah. even those who never believed he was messiah absolutely believed in his miracles. every pharasee and every nay sayer never questioned his power. they question where he got the power. the talmud, written by those who hated jesus, admit his supernatural power. every miracle in the gospel is backed as fact in talmud. it happened
since you're apparently a biblical scholar, why don't you put this to rest and list a few ofthe prophecies that you personally feel prove he was the legitimate messiah, with the scriptures to back it up. i'm not interested in hearing about all the supposed eye witnesses who are now dead.
Zigi I'm back my fun debatable friend, I didn't major in science and I don't claim to be all knowing in the scientific department.
However, I did major in history. I took several Biblical courses and discovered that what the Old Testament Prophets foretold came to pass. Jesus was of the royal Davidic line and the Jewish people were looking for a warrior Messiah, not a pacifist who chose to sacrifice himself. Jesus was of the Davidic line and crap that He had a kid is totally absurd. Even Islam states that Jesus will return on the Day of Judgment. In the Book of Revelation many of the prophecies are beginning to pass.
What you believe is based on faith. You have faith in the morning that your car will start and take you to work. You place your faith that our country will be protected by the brave military. Back to the theory of evolution - can you please tell what species are evolving right now? You try to back it up with scientific evidence, but there is none to support it. Why aren't more big bangs happening? Science wants to see proof that something exists. I can't remember the exact person who said this, but I quote:
"I see God through nature"
Originally posted by Darth Piggott
Jesus may have been an alien, and so could all the ancient G-ds. You never know> 🤪
Totally a possibility. Don't think it's backed by any evidence though... 😕
Originally posted by Digi
Actually, it doesn't dictate that at all. Do I really need to explain to you other possible explanations, all of them more likely than the Bible being true?
If you want to make your point, yes. Don't just leave it at that and expect everyone to just accept it.
Originally posted by red g jacks
never once did i put forth the claim that they were contradictions. they're 'prophecies' which christians claim jesus fulfilled. i think you saw the word 'contradiction' on the picture in the 4th vid and got excited.since you're apparently a biblical scholar, why don't you put this to rest and list a few ofthe prophecies that you personally feel prove he was the legitimate messiah, with the scriptures to back it up. i'm not interested in hearing about all the supposed eye witnesses who are now dead.
Ahem... Just because the eye witnesses are dead, doesn't make their testimony any less valid you know...
Originally posted by inimalist
you agree that it is as valid as any eyewitness testimony though?
Well, unless someone can give reasons why not.
Really, I haven't done much research into this particular point, so I wouldn't be able to have a back and forth debate over it. But the fact that the eye witnesses are now dead is not grounds on it's own to dismiss their testimony.