Espada vs Akatsuki

Now i know this has been done a number of times, on a number of forums and websites and i am sorry in advance if im not supposed to post it here, but can we do it one more time just to see how many people TODAY think which organization is better.

Because i was going through some of the forums with vs threads and i saw an extreme 'redneck violent' bias for the espadas but most of them were old threads (atleast a year old) so possibly at that time the fanbase didnt knew enough about akatsuki or maybe the espada were IN or something at that time. i am swapping konan for orochimaru... if thats ok with everyone...

here is my setting for Espada vs Akatsuki battle

Yammy VS Pain

Stark VS Itachi

Baraggan VS Kisame

Tia Halibel VS Diedara

Ulquiorra VS Madara

Nnoitora VS Hidan

Grimmjow VS Orochimaru

Zommari VS Kakuze

Szayelaporro VS Sasori

Aaroniero VS Zetsu

Everyone is at their MAX and has access to all their abilities. Also notice that akatsukis are Ninjas, they base their attacks on deception and technique, that is why they were able to bring down(actually capture alive) almost all the jinchurikis, a fine example would be the capture of Ichibi by Diedara alone... he defeated his opponent bebore he even had the chance to transform into something deadlier by forcing him to go on his defensive. so blatant comparison of of brute force or intensity of an attack should be compared keeping the art of deception in mind.

I think the Akatsuki is better as an *organization*, in the sense that they actually get things done, but power wise the Espada are far stronger and win in a direct fight.

i am swapping konan for orochimaru... if thats ok with everyone...

Probably not the best idea. With her insane billion bomb chasm move, she's one of the Akatsuki who's the most dangerous to some of the Espada.

you know what, you are probably right... but i thought orochimaru's summoning of manda could be devastating and might overwhelm grimjow. another thing that i noticed in the older threads was how much people underestimated pain.

i mean they were comparing only yahiko's path with yammy. while pain has 6 paths, the summoning path can easily summon beasts that together match the size of the resurrected yammy. and who can forget chibaku tensei... while at the same time being able to monitor yammy from 6 different views...

The reason people focus on Yahiko/Deva Pain is because his attacks easily have the most output of the Pains by far.

Stuff like summons or even Asura's missiles and lasers aren't strong enough to hurt the tougher Espada.

Originally posted by Jinkaza1987
you know what, you are probably right... but i thought orochimaru's summoning of manda could be devastating and might overwhelm grimjow.

Simply being big isn't going to help much, his spike'll blow right through Manda or other summons. Ceros too.

It's difficult to say because it is hard to quantify how fast character's from either manga actually are. Gin boasted that his bankai was 500 times the speed of sound, which was much too fast for anyone in the manga to react to... and then a few chapter's later revealed he was lying about the speed and it wasn't nearly that fast. On the other hand even at the beginning of the manga Kakashi was allegedly fast enough to cut through a lightning bolt with an ability that requires hand sells and limited charge time... but other than that we aren't given much point of reference for how fast character's are moving relative to normal people. There are a few feats of mach speeds around the Chunin exam and then the understanding that the characters have gotten faster and faster since then... but how fast they are moving now is purely speculative. If I had to come down on one side or another I would say that Naruto-verse is faster, while Bleach-verse is far more destructive with damage output.

I'd say Pain, Itachi, Madara and Hidan win with plot no jutsu, since they have abilities that the Espada will find impossible to counter, and Kisame wins because he is awesome.

Speedwise the higher Espada do have some crazy feats. For example, in the first Hueco Mundo Ichigo/Ulquiorra fight, Ulq knocked Ichi from the throne room in the middle of the city, to outside the city, then caught up with him, all in a few seconds. That's multi-kilometers travelled.

Starrk did similar when he re-kidnapped Orihime.

So they've got multiple feats like that.

Originally posted by Q99
Speedwise the higher Espada do have some crazy feats. For example, in the first Hueco Mundo Ichigo/Ulquiorra fight, Ulq knocked Ichi from the throne room in the middle of the city, to outside the city, then caught up with him, all in a few seconds. That's multi-kilometers travelled.

Starrk did similar when he re-kidnapped Orihime.

So they've got multiple feats like that.

I'm aware, but they are ambiguous feats that aren't easily quantifiable. We know they are fast but how fast is the question. What we do know for sure is that currently a sub mach 500 speed is faster than anyone in Bleach. If someone in Naruto was fast enough to cut through a lightening bolt they would literally be millions of times faster than anyone in Bleach.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'm aware, but they are ambiguous feats that aren't easily quantifiable. We know they are fast but how fast is the question.

Kilometers in a second is pretty impressive multi-mach speed.

What we do know for sure is that currently a sub mach 500 speed is faster than anyone in Bleach. If someone in Naruto was fast enough to cut through a lightening bolt they would literally be millions of times faster than anyone in Bleach.

They don't move that fast in combat.

Also with a lightning bolt, there is simply anticipation/being there first. Nothing says he reacted to one (and it's questionable whether it's true). It's more a statement of the power of the move than speed.

The best calcs I've seen place jonin body flicker movement at near-mach to low-mach speeds. Stuff like the Gates definitely gets into mach range.

Compare Gai's chasing of Kisame with gates open to Ulquiorra and Starrk's feats. The Espada practically teleported, Gai covered similar distance by jumping and traveling for a noticeable amount of time. There's a clear advantage in travel speed there.

Originally posted by Q99
Kilometers in a second is pretty impressive multi-mach speed.

True, it's differently much faster than sound.

Originally posted by Q99
They don't move that fast in combat.

Also with a lightning bolt, there is simply anticipation/being there first. Nothing says he reacted to one (and it's questionable whether it's true). It's more a statement of the power of the move than speed.

The best calcs I've seen place jonin body flicker movement at near-mach to low-mach speeds. Stuff like the Gates definitely gets into mach range.

Compare Gai's chasing of Kisame with gates open to Ulquiorra and Starrk's feats. The Espada practically teleported, Gai covered similar distance by jumping and traveling for a noticeable amount of time. There's a clear advantage in travel speed there.

Kakashi doesn't have precog, anticipating the strike zone of lightning bolt would be an statistical impossibility. He would need to see one as it was coming down, decide he wanted to cut through the sucker and then get to at and do it. If it happened it is a speed feat pure and simple.

Sasuke dodged sound based attacks pre-Chunin exam in the Forest of Death, and it was inferred Gaara's sand shield moved at greater than mach speeds around the Chunin exam as well.

The obvious answer is that in Naruto speed and perception increase proportionally, and we are witnessing events relative to perspective of the character's themselves. If I could run 100000 times faster than I can now, but perceived the world a comparable speed, it would still take my just as long to run to work as it does no from my perspective. That's why I said it was hard to gauge since we don't have a point of reference of how fast their are relative to you or I. It's hard to gauge since all the characters are operating on similar levels of speed for the most part and we haven't been give a lot of speed comparisons in Naruto. The Raikage was too fast for the Sharingan, which would make him many many times faster than Naruto at the Valley of the End fight who Sasuke was watching in frame by frame... but that is really the only basis of comparison we have.

Pain vs Yammy

Im fairly sure the deva path would be able to stop his ceros and I suppose the animal path could keep him occupied with summonings.
though Im ot sure they can do much to hurt him their best hope being asura path and possibly shinra tensei. sadly with the deva paths time lapse between usage Im not sure he could stop a barrage of Balas

Ill give this one to Yammy

Stark vs Itachi

If He gets caught in his genjutsu, its all over and susanoo could cause a massive problem with its protection plus with Starks attitude of observing the opponents Im guesing he'll look at Itachi sometime

This goes to Itachi

Barragan vs Kisame

Can water be aged? if so It goes to Barragan, If not Kisame easily takes this.

Harribel vs Deidara

Harribels sonido would give her an edge and I think she has it in her to speed blitz Deidara as his techniqes are pretty slow and generally focus on outwitting the opponent whereas harribel can also fire waves of water at him.
I give this one to Harribel

Ulquiorra vs Madara

Id have to give this one to Madara His Space time jutsu certainly will give him an edge while Ulquiorras Javelins would have no effect on Madara.

Nnoitra vs Hidan

Hidan can only win If he can cut through Nnoitras Hierro otherwise Nnoitra takes this.

Grimmjow vs Orochimaru

Grimmjow takes this one. From those long ranged attacks like Laceration and those dart things plus his close combat abilities Orochimarus not going to be able to do much.

Zomari vs Kakuzu
Not much to say her if Zomari hits his head with his eyes its all over, so Zomari here

Szayel vs Sasori

Ill give Sasori the Edge here because he starts off in Hiroko and that would give him a massive advantage as he only needs to cut Szayel and Szayel cant use most of his techniques while Sasori is in a puppet

Aarionerio vs Zetsu

Cant say much about zetsu really as we havent seen him fight yet

Originally posted by Q99
[B]
Also with a lightning bolt, there is simply anticipation/being there first. Nothing says he reacted to one (and it's questionable whether it's true). It's more a statement of the power of the move than speed.

Sharingan Precog only comes into play against physical body attacks, which is why the Sharingan could not predict the kyuubi cloak attacks. He'd have to actually react to it, then cut through it, all within a millisecond. That's possible though, since Lightning travels much slower than real world lightning (Naruto lightning takes a millisecond to reach the ground, as opposed to Real World Lightning in which a return stroke is near the speed of light)...which is why I still think Itachi reacted to it.

Both IMO. Also, I doubt it's true. Hyperbole is not non-existent in Naruto.

As far as power is concerned, we've already seen what real lightning is capable of. I doubt Kakashi's Chidori could match even a portion of its power, since he won't be cutting through all of it.

Sharingan Precog only comes into play against physical body attacks, which is why the Sharingan could not predict the kyuubi cloak attacks. He'd have to actually react to it, then cut through it, all within a millisecond.

That, or he could know where it's coming via other means, such as standing on the highest place during a lightning storm.

Or it may have been a lightning bolt from a lightning jutsu that Kakashi saw someone casting.

We've seen Kakashi fight a lot. If he had that speed and reaction, everything else would be dead.

Originally posted by Samurai100
Pain vs Yammy

Im fairly sure the deva path would be able to stop his ceros and I suppose the animal path could keep him occupied with summonings.
though Im ot sure they can do much to hurt him their best hope being asura path and possibly shinra tensei. sadly with the deva paths time lapse between usage Im not sure he could stop a barrage of Balas

Ill give this one to Yammy

Stark vs Itachi

If He gets caught in his genjutsu, its all over and susanoo could cause a massive problem with its protection plus with Starks attitude of observing the opponents Im guesing he'll look at Itachi sometime

This goes to Itachi

Barragan vs Kisame

Can water be aged? if so It goes to Barragan, If not Kisame easily takes this.

Harribel vs Deidara

Harribels sonido would give her an edge and I think she has it in her to speed blitz Deidara as his techniqes are pretty slow and generally focus on outwitting the opponent whereas harribel can also fire waves of water at him.
I give this one to Harribel

Ulquiorra vs Madara

Id have to give this one to Madara His Space time jutsu certainly will give him an edge while Ulquiorras Javelins would have no effect on Madara.

Nnoitra vs Hidan

Hidan can only win If he can cut through Nnoitras Hierro otherwise Nnoitra takes this.

Grimmjow vs Orochimaru

Grimmjow takes this one. From those long ranged attacks like Laceration and those dart things plus his close combat abilities Orochimarus not going to be able to do much.

Zomari vs Kakuzu
Not much to say her if Zomari hits his head with his eyes its all over, so Zomari here

Szayel vs Sasori

Ill give Sasori the Edge here because he starts off in Hiroko and that would give him a massive advantage as he only needs to cut Szayel and Szayel cant use most of his techniques while Sasori is in a puppet

Aarionerio vs Zetsu

Cant say much about zetsu really as we havent seen him fight yet

i have to say... a great well balanced post there dude... my only disagreement would be pain vs yammy... call me biased but i think pain is very capable of bringing down titans like post released yammy, he probably captured the five and six tailed beasts, also his summonings were able to overwhelm gamaken, so i think they would do alot more to yammy than just keep him busy...

and its not just shinrei tensei... im sure he can use chibaku and shinrei tensei in combination to create smaller earth spheres and strike yammy with them, while the preta path absorbs all his ceros and energy based attack. its the oldest rule in the book my friend... strength in numbers...quantity always trumps quality...

Bump also the Madara in this thread refers to Obito.

Nartoverse sweeps minus Espada 2&3 having outs to their opponents.

Yeah, the akatsuki dominate, except for Barragan beats Kisame and Grimmjow beats Oro, unless he has edo tensei, in which case he wins.

The arrancar version of Shunpo puts deidara in serious trouble.

Originally posted by Q99
[B} Probably not the best idea. With her insane billion bomb chasm move, she's one of the Akatsuki who's the most dangerous to some of the Espada. [/B]

IDK. That bomb thing takes for ever to prep. She doesn't have that all the time. That was at her base of operations so to speak and had beeen building those bombs up for quite some time iirc. I like Oro over her if there is not crazy prep time. He has a wide swath of techs (and supposedly knows tons of jutsu) making more versatile imo.

Assumptions:[list][*]Ignoring the general nature of Reiatsu and focusing solely on the powers and abilities as natural.[*]Genjutsu works on the Bleach characters.[/list]

Originally posted by Jinkaza1987
Yammy VS Pain

Originally posted by Jinkaza1987
Stark VS Itachi

Originally posted by Jinkaza1987
Baraggan VS Kisame

Originally posted by Jinkaza1987
Tia Halibel VS Diedara

Originally posted by Jinkaza1987
Ulquiorra VS Madara

Originally posted by Jinkaza1987
Nnoitora VS Hidan

Originally posted by Jinkaza1987
Grimmjow VS Orochimaru

Originally posted by Jinkaza1987
Zommari VS Kakuze

Originally posted by Jinkaza1987
Szayelaporro VS Sasori

Originally posted by Jinkaza1987
Aaroniero VS Zetsu

Without hax the espada should win theyre faster and physically stronger than the akatsuki.

With hax the akatsuki win lol

To be honest I actually think the Akatsuki could just get the Espada to kill each other with a few well placed words. After all they have no sense of kinsmanship and were only together because they were scared of big daddy Aizen.