Whitebeard Pirates vs Konoha

Originally posted by Radarock1971
Do you even watch one piece? Haki has nothing to do with spiritual energy number two there arent any ghosts in one piece except for that girl at thriller bark and thats a devil fruit power so its questionable if those are even real spirits or just a devil fruit power and spiritual energy is not a proved fact..

Also Brook died and his spirit floated around for years before finding his body, let's not forget that.

And Zoro's spirit manifests itself as extra arms in his 9-sword style.

So three examples, minimum, not all of whom involve devil fruit.

I don't think it's strictly necessary to prove the point, something doesn't have to have active spiritual abilities for ninja mind-affecting powers to work (Ino possessed a random bird!), but the examples are there in any case.

This is what your not getting you cant say something exists with no proof if this was court you would lose because just saying something over and over doesnt make it true if you can show me spiritual and universal energy and prove to me it exists until then your being irrelevant

I get what you're saying, I simply disagree with it.

The fact remains even without the multiple examples otherwise, genjutsu works on everything with a brain. It's a universal ability.

For versus battles, it makes sense to consider abilities universal between universes in addition to their own, even if the explanations are a bit different, because the point of a versus is to compare two side's full abilities.

It's not as fun if one side is automatically handicapped just for being put in a fight.

Originally posted by Q99
Also Brook died and his spirit floated around for years before finding his body, let's not forget that.

And Zoro's spirit manifests itself as extra arms in his 9-sword style.

So three examples, minimum, not all of whom involve devil fruit.

I don't think it's strictly necessary to prove the point, something doesn't have to have active spiritual abilities for ninja mind-affecting powers to work (Ino possessed a random bird!), but the examples are there in any case.

I get what you're saying, I simply disagree with it.

The fact remains even without the multiple examples otherwise, genjutsu works on everything with a brain. It's a universal ability.

For versus battles, it makes sense to consider abilities universal between universes in addition to their own, even if the explanations are a bit different, because the point of a versus is to compare two side's full abilities.

It's not as fun if one side is automatically handicapped just for being put in a fight.

You see that would be tru but its not fair to one piece because the only way to get out of genjutsu is with chakra and ninja abilities so its not fair in the first place you want to have genjutsu work on them but they dnt have the ability to get out how is that fair thats why im saying take out genjutsu and just leave ninjutsu thats enough for them since people in one piece only have one power while ninjutsu grants you multiple abilities

Like i said before do u watch one piece zolos asura mode has nothing to do with his spirit it was suggested and guessed that it was his spirit but nobody really knows

That thing with brook is also a devil fruit power so that doesnt count

Originally posted by Radarock1971
You see that would be tru but its not fair to one piece because the only way to get out of genjutsu is with chakra and ninja abilities so its not fair in the first place you want to have genjutsu work on them but they dnt have the ability to get out how is that fair thats why im saying take out genjutsu and just leave ninjutsu thats enough for them since people in one piece only have one power while ninjutsu grants you multiple abilities

Ah, that's where you're coming from.

But, consider, if it's universal, then defenses against other mental powers would apply as well, and while mental effects in OP aren't as common, they do exist, ala Ms. Goldenweek and Perona's ghosts (though those two were devastatingly effective, showing the power of mental effects in OP as well).

Remember how the Vice-Admiral resisted Boa's power in almost the same way Shikamaru resisted Tayuya's sonic Genjutsu? That'd be useable.

A shock to the system works against genjutsu too. I'd think releasing haki might have a similar effect- I definitely don't think any genjutsu short of Danzo's Shisui eye genjutsu would work on Whitebeard himself for more than a few seconds.

Also, some times some universes are just going to have abilities others aren't capable of defending against. Replace the ninja with Professor X and Emma Frost, or a whole ton of them. Plenty of universes are going to be screwed against that even if physically powerful. Same deal.

Originally posted by Q99
Ah, that's where you're coming from.

But, consider, if it's universal, then defenses against other mental powers would apply as well, and while mental effects in OP aren't as common, they do exist, ala Ms. Goldenweek and Perona's ghosts (though those two were devastatingly effective, showing the power of mental effects in OP as well).

Remember how the Vice-Admiral resisted Boa's power in almost the same way Shikamaru resisted Tayuya's sonic Genjutsu? That'd be useable.

A shock to the system works against genjutsu too. I'd think releasing haki might have a similar effect- I definitely don't think any genjutsu short of Danzo's Shisui eye genjutsu would work on Whitebeard himself for more than a few seconds.

Right because everyone on white beards crew has haki right lol and there are genjutsus that immobilize the body and first of all they wouldnt even know they were in a genjutsu in the first place like when kakashi used it on sakura so they cant defend anything they dnt know their in so thats why its unfair

Also, some times some universes are just going to have abilities others aren't capable of defending against. Replace the ninja with Professor X and Emma Frost, or a whole ton of them. Plenty of universes are going to be screwed against that even if physically powerful. Same deal.

They wouldnt even know they were in a genjustu in the first place like when kakashi used it on sakura so its no point in adding genjutsu because theycant defend against something they dnt know is happening

Uh...Whitebeard took getting half his face blown off with a lava fist as well as being stabbed and shot. Yet he still kept on going and didn't actually die until after Blackbeard showed up. 😕

Unless it's Tsukyomi, I don't think genjutsu is the way to go for taking on Whitebeard. It could work on some of the other Whitebeard pirates.

Even if Whitebeard was taken out, Marco and Vista could probably finish up.

Im not saying itll defeat him im just saying all they would have to do is use a genjutsu for example that would make their allies look like the enemy and then theyll just fight each other and since they dnt know about tje fact they can use genjutsu or have a way to counter it they would be helpless thats y im saying its not fair because even if they dnt beat tjem they can use the genjutsu to keep them attacking any illusion they see thus causing them to lose energy

Originally posted by Radarock1971
Im not saying itll defeat him im just saying all they would have to do is use a genjutsu for example that would make their allies look like the enemy and then theyll just fight each other and since they dnt know about tje fact they can use genjutsu or have a way to counter it they would be helpless thats y im saying its not fair because even if they dnt beat tjem they can use the genjutsu to keep them attacking any illusion they see thus causing them to lose energy

I understan this much, I'm just saying that most of the genjutsu would only work on the grunts of the Whitebeard pirates. Hell...Having Whitebeard randomly attack shit would actually hurt Konoha more than it would help. If Marco and Ace are in this, then there really isn't anything Konoha can do to those guys so the Whitebeard pirates still wins....they just have to actually try during this bout.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I understan this much, I'm just saying that most of the genjutsu would only work on the grunts of the Whitebeard pirates. Hell...Having Whitebeard randomly attack shit would actually hurt Konoha more than it would help. If Marco and Ace are in this, then there really isn't anything Konoha can do to those guys so the Whitebeard pirates still wins....they just have to actually try during this bout.

I get what your saying

I like the way you think

Konoha

Nope Whitebeard pirates take this with their vastly superior speed, genjustu or not they have enough overall destructive power to handle this.

Originally posted by Q99
If everything, even birds, have 'chakra', what makes you think the Whitebeards don't?

In the general sense it just means universal lifeforce. Only ninja have developed chakra, but "chakra" in the sense needed for genjutsu is just as basic to all living things. It's even described- just physical energy and spiritual energy, of which OP characters have both.

It's as universal as the Force in Star Wars, and we'd assume that'd still work in crossovers.

--

Anyway, with Genjutsu, they definitely have a chance.

Genjutsu would not work, since it doesn't mean "universal lifeforce." Remember, the Hermit's mom had to eat the 10 Tails' fruit in order to get chakra, which was then passed down to the Hermit, and down to all ninja. There was no 10 Tails fruit out there for anyone in OP to eat, so no one in OP has chakra, simple as that.

Mind jutsu do work on normal animals and such, though.

Chakra as in chakra powers, came from the fruit, but that doesn't seem to be a requirement to *hit* with a mind jutsu.