Originally posted by Zack Fair
It was mindless Hulk anyway. Have Supes take a dip and the armor goes bye bye faster than one of the crazy 88 goes down.
I agree with this.
By the way... WWH>Mindless Hulk.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
It was mindless Hulk anyway. Have Supes take a dip and the armor goes bye bye faster than one of the crazy 88 goes down.
I agree with this.
By the way... WWH>Mindless Hulk.
Originally posted by CosmicCometI always forget but didn't he do that under a blue sun where his powers were really weird and could do strange things like giving his farther all of his powers?
Outrunning a solar flare as a child and then not being fast enough to pick up Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Piccolo before Buu could self destruct even though they were at most a couple of thousand feet away. You know what that is bud? Outlier. 🙂DBZ folks are hypersonic at most consistently.
But hey, its not like Superman has done things like reflecting lazers at close range right? Not like he's intercepted lazers being fired from space down at cities below right? Oh wait. 🙂
Carver, you aren't dumb, at times you come close, but don't be obtuse. I don't need a combat specific feat. Why? Because building a city with your own limbs is of course completely translatable. Punch 20 times a second you ask again? Hmm. How many times a second would Supes have to be moving his arms here?
Wish to guesstimate? As he surely is not using some magic building restore vision on these is he? Goku's slow ass would not be able to do this.
What speed feats does Zeus have to say he could even touch a PIS-less Supes?
If it was under the blue sun like I think it is I've always taken that feat with a grain of salt.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I don't think that there are a lot of people here who know ALL of Supermans feats, just those from the repect threads and some comics. No offense.
No offense taken at all. Carver said he knows all of Supermans feats. Even if he did he would not give Superman credit. I am positive Superman has dones something= to Hulk breaking onslaughts shields.
Originally posted by Newjak
I always forget but didn't he do that under a blue sun where his powers were really weird and could do strange things like giving his farther all of his powers?If it was under the blue sun like I think it is I've always taken that feat with a grain of salt.
It was under a blue sun and I kind of forgot about that 🙁. If that's the case then the feat isn't as legit as people tend to use it as.
Good stuff new jack.
Originally posted by carver9Of course that doesn't mean he wasn't doing something incredibly fast. I personally just take it with a grain of salt when people start going on about how he built the entire city from the ground up brick by brick.
It was under a blue sun and I kind of forgot about that 🙁. If that's the case then the feat isn't as legit as people tend to use it as.Good stuff new jack.
Originally posted by Newjak
Of course that doesn't mean he wasn't doing something incredibly fast. I personally just take it with a grain of salt when people start going on about how he built the entire city from the ground up brick by brick.
So would that be a relevant scan to use in a Superman vs Thanos thread since we both know that it involved outside circumstances?
Originally posted by carver9I think it should be handled the same as any other character's feat given a situation where their powers are being tampered with by an outside or non standard item.
So would that be a relevant scan to use in a Superman vs Thanos thread since we both know that it involved outside circumstances?
It generally should be dismissed as for what the character can do under normal situations with a couple of exceptions.
Originally posted by Newjak
I think it should be handled the same as any other character's feat given a situation where their powers are being tampered with by an outside or non standard item.It generally should be dismissed as for what the character can do under normal situations with a couple of exceptions.
What about Blood and Thunder Thor... would that fall under the same category iyo or is that valid to use in a debate involving Thor? I always wondered these things since Thor really didn't receive a power up, the only thing that changed was his mental process BUT that is a feat during that sagag that Hor never repeated.
Originally posted by carver9Like I said there are exceptions. When said character can enter that state of their own free will it's kind of different. It's not an outside force then, it's something they can do to make it happen.
What about Blood and Thunder Thor... would that fall under the same category iyo or is that valid to use in a debate involving Thor? I always wondered these things since Thor really didn't receive a power up, the only thing that changed was his mental process BUT that is a feat during that sagag that Hor never repeated.
Another exception would be when it is a character in a depowered state. If they did a feat depowered then I think obviously they can do it powered.
Originally posted by NewjakAt no point was the increase said to be significant, or even noticeable in any way, by Superman or anybody else; besides the extra-power he developed, there was no sign of Superman being drastically different from what he normally was. If he had been multiple times more powerful than before, the story would have made notice or it, or at least Superman would have - but there was nothing of that kind, anywhere.
I always forget but didn't he do that under a blue sun where his powers were really weird and could do strange things like giving his farther all of his powers?If it was under the blue sun like I think it is I've always taken that feat with a grain of salt.
And unless you're losing common sense and start saying that Superman was actually more than 3-4 times faster/stronger than before, eventough it's asinine to anybody who has read that story, it doesn't matter that Superman was amped - even if it would have taken him 4 times longer in his 'normal state' to do this feat - the sole magnitude of it, re-building an entire city, still is beyond what almost every other character has shown in comics.
There's not really much of a difference between bulding a city in 10 seconds and building a city in 50 seconds, as far as it pertains with comparing him to other characters.
Either way, you can't blindly dismiss feats like that. 🙂
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Wait, are you saying it's a combat feat?
Rebuilding the city? Of course it can be used to determine his capabilities in a combat scenario. You could argue that he rarely operates on that level in actual combat but if one was to make an all out Superman thread, posting the feat would be a good indication of what he is capable of.
Originally posted by Philosophía
At no point was the increase said to be significant, or even noticeable in any way, by Superman or anybody else; besides the extra-power he developed, there was no sign of Superman being drastically different from what he normally was. If he had been multiple times more powerful than before, the story would have made notice or it, or at least Superman would have - but there was nothing of that kind, anywhere.And unless you're losing common sense and start saying that Superman was actually more than 3-4 times faster/stronger than before, eventough it's asinine to anybody who has read that story, it doesn't matter that Superman was amped - even if it would have taken him 4 times longer in his 'normal state' to do this feat - the sole magnitude of it, re-building an entire city, still is beyond what almost every other character has shown in comics.
There's not really much of a difference between bulding a city in 10 seconds and building a city in 50 seconds, as far as it pertains with comparing him to other characters.
Either way, you can't blindly dismiss feats like that. 🙂
So the story made it clear he got extra powers which is in fact making note of a increase in power clearly.. yet... you say the story made no mention of there being a "dramatic increase"? If you gain extra powers.. that is by default a pretty significant increase in power. So yes it was mentioned and made clear. Thus, when it's made clear you're more powerful by gettnig new powers (some of which were mentioned, commons sense there could be more) that makes the feat fall under scrutiny. Sure, he could still pull of stuff like this without being under the blue sun... that is possible. The fact is, he didn't and there were special circumstances for this feat. No way around that.
I ask again... so is this a combat related feat like it was being argued prior?
Originally posted by PhilosophíaSo basically because your saying that since it didn't state it was a dramatic increase therefore it couldn't have been.
At no point was the increase said to be significant, or even noticeable in any way, by Superman or anybody else; besides the extra-power he developed, there was no sign of Superman being drastically different from what he normally was. If he had been multiple times more powerful than before, the story would have made notice or it, or at least Superman would have - but there was nothing of that kind, anywhere.And unless you're losing common sense and start saying that Superman was actually more than 3-4 times faster/stronger than before, eventough it's asinine to anybody who has read that story, it doesn't matter that Superman was amped - even if it would have taken him 4 times longer in his 'normal state' to do this feat - the sole magnitude of it, re-building an entire city, still is beyond what almost every other character has shown in comics.
There's not really much of a difference between bulding a city in 10 seconds and building a city in 50 seconds, as far as it pertains with comparing him to other characters.
Either way, you can't blindly dismiss feats like that. 🙂
That is a weak argument imo.
All we know is he was amped. We also know he had other powers he didn't have before. We don't even know for sure how he accomplished the city building feat. We just know he flew around fast and the city began to be fixed. Was it is his new vastly improved speed that did it, possibly, was it his normal speed that did it maybe.
Was it the fact that he was using some kind of manipulation power to do it fast, just as likely as any other scenario since he did you know give his father his complete power set. Plus Bizarro who was equally amped created the entire world from scratch so it may be even more likely then Superman simply rebuilding everything by hand.
The point is that regardless of what you want to believe the feat is tainted by the fact he had a boost, and unless you can provide a scan of him doing something similar while under normal power levels then the feat needs to be treated as such.
Originally posted by NewjakThe actual increase in power wasn't stated, suggested or even shown to be dramatic, and saying that the magnitude it increased renders it completly irrelevant to normal Superman's capabilities is idiotic.
So basically because your saying that since it didn't state it was a dramatic increase therefore it couldn't have been.
As I previously mentioned, unless you start saying that Superman had become magnitudes of times more powerful - eventough nothing in the actual story suggests as such, then it says lengths about normal Superman's capabilities - even if it would take him 2 or 3 times more time to do the same thing. Which is being generous since the increase in power was nowhere shown to be that big.
Originally posted by NewjakWhat's a weak argument is shoving your fingers into your ears and going "wah wah wah he was amped, it's unusable, I don't care about anything else wah wah wah".
That is a weak argument imo.
Originally posted by Newjak
We don't even know for sure how he accomplished the city building feat. We just know he flew around fast and the city began to be fixed.Was it the fact that he was using some kind of manipulation power to do it fast, just as likely as any other scenario
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Rebuilding the city? Of course it can be used to determine his capabilities in a combat scenario. You could argue that he rarely operates on that level in actual combat but if one was to make an all out Superman thread, posting the feat would be a good indication of what he is capable of.
Lets expand on this further...
First... it was under a bluesun which the story made clear gave him extra powers and be default thus made him more powerful. It's kinda like the Thanos reflex feat with the IG.. it's clouded simply because of the cirucumstances around it correct? However, let forget about that part and expand on it further...
The reason why it's isn't really applicable for a combat related feat is because of the other variables that a vs fight brings that a rebuilding feat doesn't. Sure, there is some overlap there but there is a lot that isn't mutually inclusive between the two. First, superman has super perceptions and can think on the fly really quickly. cool. He's also pretty intelligent and has been known to build things quickly and stuff that takes skill. Thus when he's flying around with his heightened perceptions, intelligence and speed he knows where this block, this brick, this metal etc etc will be placed well before he does it. He's thinking on the fly and constantly ahead of the game. Cool. Some of that is applicable to a combat fight. However, the huge difference would be shown in the following example. Now, lets say Superman is trying the same feat while another person is throwing materials in opposite directions.. knocking down what he's already put up etc etc. Common sense tells us he won't be able to rebuild it with the same quickness and effciency he would if nobody is messing with him. That is the huge difference between the two situation. In comic book fight we have some actively resisting fighting you and throwing you off yoru game. Whether it be teleporation, simply moving, offensivley fighting back etc etc. One situation is superman having NOTHING or ANYBODY fighting against him and him flying around doing a task. The other is somebody actively fighting against Superman with their own abilities, perception and intelligence, not a whole bunch of materials there just waiting to be moved around.
Point is, while it does show that superman can operate at fast speeds (not getting into the bluesun part) it isn't totally applicable to a combat situation for the reasons I stated above. If you had somebody there actively messing up what superman was building.. well that would take him longer to pull of that same feat wouldn't it? So, no it doesn't show what he could do in a battle situation as one he was dealing with stationary materials not actively resisiting him or moving around. Huge hgue differences
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Lets expand on this further...First... it was under a bluesun which the story made clear gave him extra powers and be default thus made him more powerful. It's kinda like the Thanos reflex feat with the IG.. it's clouded simply because of the cirucumstances around it correct? However, let forget about that part and expand on it further...
I don't particularly care whether or not it was under a Blue Sun. I'm talking specifically about the application of this feat on to combat. If you wish, we can use the recent Flash tie in issue as a substitute.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The reason why it's isn't really applicable for a combat related feat is because of the other variables that a vs fight brings that a rebuilding feat doesn't. Sure, there is some overlap there but there is a lot that isn't mutually inclusive between the two. First, superman has super perceptions and can think on the fly really quickly. cool. He's also pretty intelligent and has been known to build things quickly and stuff that takes skill. Thus when he's flying around with his heightened perceptions, intelligence and speed he knows where this block, this brick, this metal etc etc will be placed well before he does it. He's thinking on the fly and constantly ahead of the game. Cool. Some of that is applicable to a combat fight. However, the huge difference would be shown in the following example. Now, lets say Superman is trying the same feat while another person is throwing materials in opposite directions.. knocking down what he's already put up etc etc. Common sense tells us he won't be able to rebuild it with the same quickness and effciency he would if nobody is messing with him. That is the huge difference between the two situation. In comic book fight we have some actively resisting fighting you and throwing you off yoru game. Whether it be teleporation, simply moving, offensivley fighting back etc etc. One situation is superman having NOTHING or ANYBODY fighting against him and him flying around doing a task. The other is somebody actively fighting against Superman with their own abilities, perception and intelligence, not a whole bunch of materials there just waiting to be moved around.Point is, while it does show that superman can operate at fast speeds (not getting into the bluesun part) it isn't totally applicable to a combat situation for the reasons I stated above. If you had somebody there actively messing up what superman was building.. well that would take him longer to pull of that same feat wouldn't it? So, no it doesn't show what he could do in a battle situation as one he was dealing with stationary materials not actively resisiting him or moving around. Huge hgue differences
whathefuk
If Superman can rebuild an entire city in moments -a long with his other speed feats- very few people can strike him. Due to the nature of comics however, he rarely applies this speed in combat and is most likely to take a punch to the chin.
It's very simple.