Wolverine vs Captain America

Originally posted by dadudemon

Do you have ANY evidence from any point that indicates she can go "more powerful" than that?

Yes I do. But you wouldn't know about it, would you?

This is borderline trolling to be frank.

Either:

1. say you don't care about any evidence, you will believe what you want to believe (which is what you've effectively done so far).

OR

2. rebut my points

OR

3. Prove that she was going full power.

Unless you comply with at least one of those options, theres no more discussion to be had (defaulting to option 1).

Originally posted by Placidity
Yes I do. But you wouldn't know about it, would you?

This is borderline trolling to be frank.

Either:

1. say you don't care about any evidence, you will believe what you want to believe (which is what you've effectively done so far).

OR

2. rebut my points

OR

3. Prove that she was going full power.

Unless you comply with at least one of those options, theres no more discussion to be had (defaulting to option 1).

If by borderline trolling you mean you're trolling me because you keep pestering me to believe something false and are trying to pass it off as fact, then, yes, you're skirting on the edge of trolling. I am not required to read your posts especially if they have no substance. I should not and will not entertain a meaningless discussion.

So you can do one of 3 things:

1. Prove that she was holding back with either commentary from one in authority over the films (director, writer)

2. Admit you were wrong and stop wasting time.

3. Indicate that it is something you WISHED the film had done and chose to believe in a false reality.

You have yet to provide tangible evidence: only your baseless claims.

And, to your "holding back" claim, as fact, she was not. She actually could not STOP and was uncontrolled at that point. I know you saw the movie so I know you know that that was one reason Xavier unethically pwned her mind: to prevent her from going on an uncontrollable rampage.

In other words, you're wrong on all accounts in the most direct way possible.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If by borderline trolling you mean you're trolling me because you keep pestering me to believe something false and are trying to pass it off as fact, then, yes, you're skirting on the edge of trolling. I am not required to read your posts especially if they have no substance. I should not and will not entertain a meaningless discussion.

Stop trolling.

You're saying something is false without even reading it.

Nice.

Originally posted by dadudemon

1. Prove that she was holding back with either commentary from one in authority over the films (director, writer)

Even if I did, how would you know if you keep maintaining that you won't read my points? Trolling

Originally posted by dadudemon
2. Admit you were wrong and stop wasting time.

No, you admit you're too arrogant to read an argument and then saying its wrong when you haven't read it.

Originally posted by dadudemon

3. Indicate that it is something you WISHED the film had done and chose to believe in a false reality.

Troll more.

Originally posted by dadudemon

You have yet to provide tangible evidence: only your baseless claims.

How would you know about the evidence I have or have not provided if you maintain that you will not read it? Explain that or concede that you're trolling / being a jerk?

Originally posted by dadudemon

And, to your "holding back" claim, as fact, she was not. She actually could not STOP and was uncontrolled at that point. I know you saw the movie so I know you know that that was one reason Xavier unethically pwned her mind: to prevent her from going on an uncontrollable rampage.

Irrelevant.

Originally posted by dadudemon

In other words, you're wrong on all accounts in the most direct way possible.

False.

In any regulated debate you've been demolished. Not addressing the opposition's point while maintaining it is wrong, without any arguments.

Originally posted by Placidity
Stop trolling.

No you.

Originally posted by Placidity
You're saying something is false without even reading it.

Nice.

No, I read it: the fluff is unnecessary. Stop pretending you've got some sort of magical ground breaking points made when you haven't.

Originally posted by Placidity
Even if I did, how would you know if you keep maintaining that you won't read my points? Trolling.

Cause you didn't. Don't create false scenarios and then expect me to argue against an non-existant situation and then call me a troll when you're creating conflict that doesn't exist: a certain banned troll used to do the same thing.

Originally posted by Placidity
No, you admit you're too arrogant to read an argument and then saying its wrong when you haven't read it.

Correction: you're the arrogant one beacuse you've made an unsupported claim and are trying to cram it down my throat. I've done nothing but follow what was seen on screen. Also: "Stop pretending you've got some sort of magical ground breaking points made when you haven't."

Originally posted by Placidity
Troll more.

Because you're making up stuff and I called you on it, I'm trolling? Seems more like you don't like your point being called for what it is: fantasy. Just relax a bit and deal. It's much easier if you admit that it's baseless BEFORE you try to pass off the argument as fact. I do not do it 100% of the time, but I make sure to preface my baseless assumptions as fact before I present them to avoid confusion just like this.

Also, get off your pedatsool of "witch-hunting" when you're clearly trolling me.

Originally posted by Placidity
How would you know about the evidence I have or have not provided if you maintain that you will not read it? Explain that or concede that you're trolling / being a jerk?

Because I've clearly skimmed over your posts and get the content of them without having to read them word for word.
Additionally: "Stop pretending you've got some sort of magical ground breaking points made when you haven't."

Explain that or concede that you're trolling. And, I'm actually serious unlike you who are just throwing it out there to make your points seem like that have substance.

Originally posted by Placidity
Irrelevant.

Awesome logic. 😬

Originally posted by Placidity
False.

True. 😬

Originally posted by Placidity
In any regulated debate you've been demolished. Not addressing the opposition's point while maintaining it is wrong, without any arguments.

In any regulated debate, you'd have been laughed off of the stage because making stuff up and trying to pass it off as fact to win a debate when you're directly contradicted by the premise, is fail.

So now...

Stop trolling me. Seriously, stop it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Stop trolling me. Seriously, stop it.

I'm not convinced and, no, this time, I didn't read anything in your post.

Edit - Decided that since my episode of Naruto is over, I'll actually read your post.

Yep how would you know I'm trolling you when you said you haven't read any of my post.

Same way you would know my evidence is 'baseless', while maintaining you wouldn't read it right?

You defy logic bro, good job.

This was a really low move for you mate. Instead of debating like a proper person, you sink to "no I won't even read your post, but its wrong, you have no evidence, I don't know how I know you have no evidence since I haven't read your points, I'm an omniscient psychic maybe".

I'm done.

LMAO DP could obviously kill wolverine 😬

no HF is withstanding such disintegration
she was clearly asking wolverine to kill her 😬

not to mention a guy with claws killing such a powerful telekentic is ridiculous ...even when she wants to die
which is why x3 sucked bawlz

Originally posted by Placidity
Yep how would you know I'm trolling you when you said you haven't read any of my post.

No, I read it: the fluff is unnecessary. Stop pretending you've got some sort of magical ground breaking points made when you haven't.

Originally posted by Placidity
Same way you would know my evidence is 'baseless', while maintaining you wouldn't read it right?

You defy logic bro, good job..

"Stop pretending you've got some sort of magical ground breaking points made when you haven't."

Originally posted by Placidity
This was a really low move for you mate. Instead of debating like a proper person, you sink to "no I won't even read your post, but its wrong, you have no evidence, I don't know how I know you have no evidence since I haven't read your points, I'm an omniscient psychic maybe".

Nah, it's just that, anything that contradicts what was seen on-screen is automatically wrong and a gigantic....wait, de javu, eh? So you've tried to pass off something that directly contradicts what we see onscreen and then I'm supposed to just "magically" believe you when I know better?

It's like: "How do you KNOW that these magic rocks will not heal you? You can't say they won't if you won't even try them."

Originally posted by Placidity
I'm done.

You should have stopped the moment you tried to pass off a baseless claim. I would have had more respect for your point IF you would have prefaced it as baseless before presenting it.

Originally posted by Placidity
Actually, she could easily. More on that later.

I don't think it was ever stated that "only way to get through the adamantium is with adamantium." But no one is arguing that anyway.

Yeah, that was directly stated and observed in Wolverine's Origins film.

Originally posted by Placidity
2. Wolverine CAN "be killed by [something] short of a catastrophic event that vastly eclipses Dark Phoenix' rape", and I mentioned what happened to Lady Deathstrike as an example to do this.

That's quite a special circumstance, now isn't it?

Considering that there's no "liquid adamantium" around, we need something else. If you want to talk about the, literally, only exception to the catastrophic rule, which does not apply to to this thread, fine, but this is the wrong place for it. What about a massive dose of radiation? That might work...but there's no evidence that it will or will not. We know from the comics that he can resist high-levels of radiation...so we can, but baselessly, say that high radiation probably will not take him down.

Drowning? Maybe? But how is the captain supposed to pull that off? Kee in mind, "Wolverine cannot die" directly relates to THIS thread, not some over-arching statement in all of the universe. Since I explained that already, there's no need to keep going back there, which is why I originally got turned off from entertaining this conversation with you: you clearly had an agenda and it seemed like it was clearly trolling me.

Originally posted by Placidity
At no point am I discussing Cap, just referencing your claims about Wolverine.

k

Originally posted by Placidity
Now, onto DP vs Wolverine, I've explained this more times than I care to, so I'm just gonna quote myself:

Summary: DP did not unleash full powers on Wolvie in X3, and she could kill him easily if she wanted to.

Addressed this already:

"And, to your "holding back" claim, as fact, she was not. She actually could not STOP and was uncontrolled at that point. I know you saw the movie so I know you know that that was one reason Xavier unethically pwned her mind: to prevent her from going on an uncontrollable rampage."

Yet, you're going to pretend as though you brought something "new" to the table and expect me to argue against it. I told you that you were actually trolling me. 😬

And if you're going by the movie Wolverine, I would think Predator would win, since Logan got knocked out after being shot in the head in X2.
In X3, so-called Dark Phoenix wasnt even her full powers against him. The Phoenix obliterated everyone at the molecular level in less than a second. Theres just no way Logan could have regenerated from that if she unleashed her full powers on him.

Do you really think Logan could've gotten close to the Phoenix if she didnt let him? (or Logan>Phoenix)

You may have forgotten that she has telekinesis, which is what allows her to "demolecularize" objects. So even if she was struggling to demolecularize him as you claim, she could have pushed him away/ slammed him into the ground/ make him immobile etc (as shown earlier in the film).

They also have a love/hate relationship going on, hence why she didnt kill him. (or some claim that Jean was fighting/holding back the phoenix)

Observing what the Phoenix did to other victims should show that she was only using a fraction of her powers against Logan. Basically, she was only striping a few layers off his chest and face. Whereas, when using her full capacity, the victim is demolecularized from head to toe almost instantly (not just the chest etc).

Also, the Phoenix asks Logan: "You would die for them?", implying she is capable of killing him. And she probably well may have if Jean didnt surface after that.

In addition, Judging by previous feats of Logan's healing factor in the films, it is also obvious he cannot regenerate at any rate as close to how quickly Phoenix can demolecularize objects(i.e almost instantly).

Easily countered by this, yet you pretended as though you had some sort of "magic" counter when I clearly addressed your post without having actually read it:

Originally posted by dadudemon
I covered this a long time ago a different thread.

IF DP could have killed him and was holding back, explain the very direct relationship between the "plasma" cloudy stuff and the destruction of it touching something? Then explain why Logan did not disintegrate despite bathing in that plasma junk? Any explanation other than PIS or Logan powered through it, is baseless.

Claiming she was holding back does not fit, in the slightest, the visual given to us on the screen. There is also no "official" release or story on it explaining that she was holding back: by all visual counts, she was not holding back.

Reading into it by giving attributes that do not exist, is baseless. Stick with what was on screen: Logan withstood the plasma, full-blast, from DP.

On other words, when I say I do not need to read something, that's because I really do not need to. It's not as though you hadn't made you case prior: you're just repeating yourself. It's not as though I haven't made the same points: I'm just repeating myself.

As for the "knocked back" portion: wolverine is much more dense than those others dudes. That STILL does not explain him not being knocked back, but since when does movie logic fit perfectly with the laws of physics? Why can Wesley Gibson bend bullets when that directly contradicts physics? Why doesn't Logan get blown to dust by the telekenetic plasma that is clearly fully touching him (it does, just not to the same effect as everyone else when they are touched by it...also, the adamantium clearly has a resistance to the plasma)? Why don't his clothes get demolished instantly when he was clearly bathing in plasma?

Oh, right, I addressed that too:

Originally posted by dadudemon
We couldn't have Wolvies clost turning to dust because that would make him naked.

Dude I dont buy that bit......they coulda gotten round that with angle shots closeups above the waist whatever....
(Unless he had a 23 foot admantium wang too) it wouldnt have been hard to have shown us that the energy blasted everything off, yet without turning it into a sequel to boogie nights.

I mean, You never see 'too much' in Fantastic Four, when Alba appears naked, right?*

*= 🙁 🙁 🙁

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Dude I dont buy that bit......they coulda gotten round that with angle shots closeups above the waist whatever....

Yes, and turned the dramatic scene into "comedy", right? I don't buy the using of "angle shots" to cover up the stupidity of having to make him naked.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
(Unless he had a 23 foot admantium wang too) it wouldnt have been hard to have shown us that the energy blasted everything off, yet without turning it into a sequel to boogie nights.

I mean, You never see 'too much' in Fantastic Four, when Alba appears naked, right?*

And that was comedy with "fan-service"...very out of place for the "dramatic" finish.

^ @ sadoka - Yea its pretty obvious it wasn't a full power blast.

Heres something I hadn't mentioned before.

Look at the video of Phoenix vs Xavier.

YouTube video
(sorry embed disabled)

3:20 Xavier starts to experience her disintegration powers, but clearly not full power.

3:41 Clearly you can see he is getting layers peeled off him, the cloudy dust effect surrounds him.

4:37 Phoenix uses her full power on him. He vaporizes instantly, from head to toe, his whole body, not just his chest and parts of his face (like what happened to Logan).

Its quite easy to see Phoenix wasn't using her full power on Wolverine. The difference on screen is as distinctive between Cyclop's narrow beams and his uncontrolled, full power blast. Anyone who believes Logan received an attack that has the rate of disintegration that is of equal power to what happened to Xavier as shown in the video, or what happened to the other mutants is delusional. A comparison of the scenes shows it clearly.

YouTube video

More importantly, even after Phoenix launched a few waves of attacks on Logan, his suit was still there. It took a few waves, and at least 30 seconds for her to completely disintegrate the suit? Oops, I think I just completely destroyed that idea. His pants are also on the whole time, but I'll let that one fly, although its already a moot point.

It's also shown on the video, that his whole body is not receiving disintegration, only certain parts of the anterior of his body. Not EVEN CLOSE to full power. We also see his back for a few shots when he is getting the treatment, nothing is happening to it. Heck his hair doesn't even mess up through the whole thing.

Furthermore, as I pointed out before why would Phoenix ask Logan if "would die for them" if she wasn't capable of killing him?

As seen earlier, Wolverine got smashed by DP at the Mansion. He can't move an inch if DP didn't allow it.

Originally posted by Placidity
^ @ sadoka - Yea its pretty obvious it wasn't a full power blast.

Heres something I hadn't mentioned before.

Look at the video of Phoenix vs Xavier.

YouTube video
(sorry embed disabled)

3:20 Xavier starts to experience her disintegration powers, but clearly not full power.

3:41 Clearly you can see he is getting layers peeled off him, the cloudy dust effect surrounds him.

4:37 Phoenix uses her full power on him. He vaporizes instantly, from head to toe, his whole body, not just his chest and parts of his face (like what happened to Logan).

Its quite easy to see Phoenix wasn't using her full power on Wolverine. The difference on screen is as distinctive between Cyclop's narrow beams and his uncontrolled, full power blast. Anyone who believes Logan received an attack that has the rate of disintegration that is of equal power to what happened to Xavier as shown in the video, or what happened to the other mutants is delusional. A comparison of the scenes shows it clearly.

YouTube video

More importantly, even after Phoenix launched a few waves of attacks on Logan, his suit was still there. It took a few waves, and at least 30 seconds for her to completely disintegrate the suit? Oops, I think I just completely destroyed that idea. His pants are also on the whole time, but I'll let that one fly, although its already a moot point.

It's also shown on the video, that his whole body is not receiving disintegration, only certain parts of the anterior of his body. Not EVEN CLOSE to full power. We also see his back for a few shots when he is getting the treatment, nothing is happening to it. Heck his hair doesn't even mess up through the whole thing.

Furthermore, as I pointed out before why would Phoenix ask Logan if "would die for them" if she wasn't capable of killing him?

As seen earlier, Wolverine got smashed by DP at the Mansion. He can't move an inch if DP didn't allow it.

Xavier was resisting. She was also straining against Xavier. That was her full power...smaller than in than out in the open. 🙂

In your first vid, 1:51, "stay out of my head." He was limiting her the entire time and he gave up, right at the end, because he succeeded in transfering his consciousness to the other body by that point...no reason to "fight" it anymore.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Xavier was resisting. She was also straining against Xavier. That was her full power...smaller than in than out in the open. 🙂

In your first vid, 1:51, "stay out of my head." He was limiting her the entire time and he gave up, right at the end, because he succeeded in transfering his consciousness to the other body by that point...no reason to "fight" it anymore.

LOL, Xavier resisting disintegration? Good one.

She wasn't straining.

Clearly not full power.

I like how you're making baseless claims. Oh that sounds familiar.

"Stay out of my head" was Jean Grey. Black Eyes and Ass-kicking was Dark Phoenix. He wasn't doing shit after Phoenix surfaced.

I take it you concede then, given the weak and brief counter-arguments, and how you failed to address the point where Wolverine's suit was still there after a few waves of her attack, which according to you is full power despite it clearly wasn't on-screen?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Huh?

It was around 4:40 am that I wrote that so I dunno 😂 I got my ass kicked by lady deathstrike

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, and turned the dramatic scene into "comedy", right? I don't buy the using of "angle shots" to cover up the stupidity of having to make him naked.

And that was comedy with "fan-service"...very out of place for the "dramatic" finish.

Yes they did. I agree.
But was the 1st appearance of the Terminator meant to be comedy?

If we could all put our penises away, it would be nice.

DDM, kindly cease the back and forth with Placidity.

Placidity, same for you, too, please.

Let's all play nice, else I'll make you all kneel on wooden broom sticks. evillaugh

I have a wooden broomstick in my pants

Giggity goo!

LOL i find it funny that DP would levitate professor X and not wolverine 😆

wolverines HF must be able to stop levitation
...
i still didn't see Cap in incredible hulk 😬
i saw iron man
can someone post it

Cap was in a deleted scene during the North Pole, although it's just a blur it's still him

I don't see how HF would prevent levitation, thats not harming him thats just...picking him up

Cap was in a deleted scene during the North Pole, although it's just a blur it's still him

don't see how HF would prevent levitation, thats not harming him thats just...picking him up