Thor/Bor vs. WonderWoman/Black Adam/Captain Marvel

Originally posted by Comics Queen
First off, you are of the contention that I think CM and Superman are equals. I do not. Lets get that str8. And CM's Strength cannot outstrip Diana's when he gets his from Herculese and she is stronger than Herc. She has best Herc in combat. You have NOT proven that CM is stronger than Diana. You saying so does not make it so. Not when I've shown Diana to do longer lasting DMG to Superman than CM and she even hits Superman further along than CM does.

So, you don't think what Superman and DC Comics as whole thinks? Ok.

First of all, Captain Marvel's powers stack. Look at the arm wrestling instance for example. The Power of Zeus further augments his abilities, which includes his physical strength. The Strength of Hercules, Stamina of Atlas, and Power of Zeus working in tandem is what makes Captain Marvel equal or extremely close to being equal to Superman in terms of physical prowess.

Superman's multitude of comments and Diana's comments prove my point. You keep using Diana's skill and combat finesse to translate into sole strength and that's not the case.

You've just said it yourself here just now that you don't think what Superman and a host of others do despite the fact that's it's consistently shown to be the case. Captain Marvel and Black Adam are stronger than Diana. And throwing Diana's H2H skill as reasoning as her being as strong or stronger than them doesn't change that.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So, you don't think what Superman and DC Comics as whole thinks? Ok.

First of all, Captain Marvel's powers stack. Look at the arm wrestling instance for example. The Power of Zeus further augments his abilities, which includes his physical strength. The Strength of Hercules, Stamina of Atlas, and Power of Zeus working in tandem is what makes Captain Marvel equal or extremely close to being equal to Superman in terms of physical prowess.

Superman's multitude of comments and Diana's comments prove my point. You keep using Diana's skill and combat finesse to translate into sole strength and that's not the case.

You've just said it yourself here just now that you don't think what Superman and a host of others do despite the fact that's it's consistently shown to be the case. Captain Marvel and Black Adam are stronger than Diana. And throwing Diana's H2H skill as reasoning as her being as strong or stronger than them doesn't change that.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Skill isn't going to get thru Superman's bio aura or invulnerablity. You can keep trying that all day long. It requires power and lots of it to do so. Wonder Woman also has the Strength of Gaea and Demeter stacking. As well as powers from Zeus, Hera, Hermes, Etc. If you want to go blow by blow, Post Captain Marvel doing harm to Superman with no magical amp, and I'll post WW doing the same or better.

It's her skill which enabled her to fight him effectively and evade his cumbersome blows and strike with precision coupled with her own strength and speed, which is nothing to sneer at. Why you insist on ignoring this and placing Diana on a pedestal she's not on is beyond me. It does require power to harm Superman, and the power Diana does have is enough to harm him. You don't need to be as strong as Superman to hurt him, but to last as long as Diana did, you need the skill and fighting prowess to do so. If Diana merely slugged it out with Clark, trading blow for blow with him, she would have lost a lot faster.

I'm fully aware of Diana's patron deities. Captain Marvel's attributes all stack on top of each other, and the Power of Shazam as a whole it what makes him as formidable as he is.

Post Captain Marvel doing damage to Superman without a magical amp? So no magically charged fist or Shazam lighting summoning?

http://img104.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=4a22e_capvsupes4c.jpg

No evidence of magical amping outside of Superman acknowledging Captain Marvel's powers are based in them. Whereas in JLA, Captain Marvel explicitly used magically charged punches to KO an unsuspecting Superman in three blows.

Post Diana physically stalemating Superman in any contest of strength. Post any scan that shows Superman conceding Diana is his equal or better in terms of power and ability.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's her skill which enabled her to fight him effectively and evade his cumbersome blows and strike with precision coupled with her own strength and speed, which is nothing to sneer at. Why you insist on ignoring this and placing Diana on a pedestal she's not on is beyond me. It does require power to harm Superman, and the power Diana does have is enough to harm him. You don't need to be as strong as Superman to hurt him, but to last as long as Diana did, you need the skill and fighting prowess to do so. If Diana merely slugged it out with Clark, trading blow for blow with him, she would have lost a lot faster.

I'm fully aware of Diana's patron deities. Captain Marvel's attributes all stack on top of each other, and the Power of Shazam as a whole it what makes him as formidable as he is.

Post Captain Marvel doing damage to Superman without a magical amp? So no magically charged fist or Shazam lighting summoning?

http://img104.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=4a22e_capvsupes4c.jpg

No evidence of magical amping outside of Superman acknowledging Captain Marvel's powers are based in them. Whereas in JLA, Captain Marvel explicitly used magically charged punches to KO an unsuspecting Superman in three blows.

Post Diana physically stalemating Superman in any contest of strength. Post any scan that shows Superman conceding Diana is his equal or better in terms of power and ability.

Has CM ever hit Superman this hard to punch him THRU a mountain?

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Her fist are magical weapons? When he was holding himself in pain and kneeled over from her assault, that was from magical weapons? Skill isn't going to over come Superman's massive bio aura and invulnerablity. Strength has to do it. Or do you think Batman's skill, which is greater than Diana's could make superman hurt? Wonder Woman fought an amped Superman twice to my recollection.

i never said her fists were magical weapons.

he doesn't have a bio-aura anymore.

i never said she wasn't strong.

she fought an out of his mind amped Superman during Sacrifice, so the amp itself is kind of overstated.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
First off, that fight was staged. Do better. And CM"s blows didn't even hurt Superman. He's still standing. Plus CM had a FLY in to the first punch.

So they used fake blood ala WWE? Pretty sure Superman can't will himself to bleed from a strike if it's not strong enough to draw blood on its own. Lowballing Captain Marvel and his consistent portrayals as compared to Superman doesn't suit your case. And after the first strike, Captain Marvel told him to stand down and Superman replied with heat vision. So, "Superman wasn't ready" doesn't count.

I guess it was staged when Marvel held his own against Superman all the other times, too.

Hinging your basis on Sacrifice and Superman's comment about Cheetah as compared to the overwelming amount of evidence stacked against you doesn't make Diana stronger than Captain Marvel or even as strong.

Back on topic:

Team 1 should win without PIS/CIS/Etc. Classic Diana makes it far closer of a fight.

Do people think that Black Adam is equal to Superman? Since he's equal to CM, he should be close to Superman.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So they used fake blood ala WWE? Pretty sure Superman can't will himself to bleed from a strike if it's not strong enough to draw blood on its own. Lowballing Captain Marvel and his consistent portrayals as compared to Superman doesn't suit your case. And after the first strike, Captain Marvel told him to stand down and Superman replied with heat vision. So, "Superman wasn't ready" doesn't count.

I guess it was staged when Marvel held his own against Superman all the other times, too.

Hinging your basis on Sacrifice and Superman's comment about Cheetah as compared to the overwelming amount of evidence stacked against you doesn't make Diana stronger than Captain Marvel or even as strong.

Back on topic:

Team 1 should win without PIS/CIS/Etc. Classic Diana makes it far closer of a fight.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i never said her fists were magical weapons.

he doesn't have a bio-aura anymore.

i never said she wasn't strong.

she fought an out of his mind amped Superman during Sacrifice, so the amp itself is kind of overstated.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
I hinge my basis that Diana and CM are equals and Superman is slightly superior to both of them based upon the evidence of comics and statements made in those comics. The posting of Diana kicking Superman thru a mountain is NOT from sacrifice. I just wanted to show that she has done better with her attacks against Superman than CM has.

Except...your basis is flat out wrong based on the evidence of comics. Superman considers Captain Marvel to be more equal to him than Diana based off statements and it's backed up with feats and showings from all of them. Diana knows she's can't trade blow for blow with Superman, which is why she either tries to out fight him or grab specialized gear to overcome that disadvantage. Captain Marvel, on the other hand, can slug it out with Superman and endure being punched across the country with no damage whatsoever and tackle Superman from the Cali coast to the Arctic.

Diana being a better fighter than CM =/= being as strong as him. That's what you are refusing to believe.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
The out of mind state isn't exactly true. He wasn't out of his mind. He actually believed he was fighting someone else. A SUPERIOR opponent. The fact that he was hitting Diana as if she were Doomsday and she hitting him and he didn't notice any big strength difference lends itself more to my assumption that they are all in the same class. Also note that Diana was holding back in the story as stated and shown on panel.

He thought he was fighting a Doomsday which butchered Lois. He was distraught and in a full blown rage and under the sway of Maxwell Lord's telepathy. It's a good showing for Diana against fighting someone who physically outclasses her, and no one disputes it.

But trying to paint it as Diana = Captain Marvel or Superman and trying to act like Diana's sole strength was what saved her is misleading at best.

Not that it matters, but Rucka himself stated Superman was out of his mind...

Originally posted by -Pr-
Not that it matters, but Rucka himself stated Superman was out of his mind...

I don't see why it wouldn't matter, tbh.

I know writer statements are tricky for debate usage here, but so long as they don't explicitly contradict what was said in the story or a connected one and they're aren't opinions based off of something else, they give us good insight as to what they at least were attempting to convey to us. I take Sacrifice for what it was: Diana faring against a violent, bloodlusted, and mentally unstable Superman. It's extremely good for her under the circumstances.

If Superman knew he was fighting Diana, the results would have been different.

I just meant because the sock was now banned. 😛

Lol. Well, there ya go. *nods*