The Avengers vs The X-men

Originally posted by Silent Master
Aurora and Northstar would have to notice that the TP users are in trouble first and they'll be dodging lightning/floods/tornados themselves, so there is no guarantee that they'll notice in time.

Show some scans of them carry people with human level durability where their speed is listed or implied to be near c.

They react at c, so they'd notice pretty fast.
I have scans of Northstar moving with people at superspeed if that's what you want?

It doesn't have to be near c, they're faster then Thor anyway by a lot. And all they need is time to think.

Lightning is a third the speed of c. And he's not going to unleash and omnidirectional blast. Not if it means hurting the other Avengers. Same with floods.

Then there's Iceman too.

Isn't Namor pretty fast as well?

WWH takes this.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
They react at c, so they'd notice pretty fast.
I have scans of Northstar moving with people at superspeed if that's what you want?

It doesn't have to be near c, they're faster then Thor anyway by a lot.

Lightning is a third the speed of c. And he's not going to unleash and omnidirectional blast. Not if it means hurting the other Avengers. Same with floods.

Ok, show scans of Northstar noticing and saving people while he's also being attacked.

I want scans that of him moving people with human level durability at near c.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Thor on average is not that fast combat speed wise. And that's flight speed not reaction speed. And is he really going to lash out on his team mates with an omni-directional attack?

BTW I'm not sure what post of KM you're referring to. I haven't seen anything to suggest they lost their upgrade.

reaction speed he has reacted at point blank psi blasts.
he has ftl reflexes
He can unleash this wide attack without hurting his teammates.
he can form it aiming only the targets in front of him

by the way Thor does not only shoot lightning from his hammer. So the twins have to go > c to doge this, more so to save others

Originally posted by Silent Master
Ok, show scans of Northstar noticing and saving people while he's also being attacked.

I want scans that of him moving people with human level durability at near c.

Northstar is faster then Thor. He won't be attacked.

Why do you want scans at c. Thor can't hit him with an attack at c. Not unless he wishes to hurt the other Avengers.

Originally posted by Warlord
reaction speed he has reacted at point blank psi blasts.
he has ftl reflexes
He can unleash this wide attack without hurting his teammates.
he can form it aiming only the targets in front of him

by the way Thor does not only shoot lightning from his hammer. So the twins have to go > c to doge this, more so to save others

On his average showing Thor does not have those reflexes.

Do we have a scan of Thor taking out people? Before they can even process a thought? With a wide area attack?

Jean even has TK shields.

Storm can counter.

Iceman and Namor can run interference.

WWH wins but they have the tools to take Thor down.

Originally posted by Warlord
he has ftl reflexes

Lol, no he doesn't.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Northstar is faster then Thor. He won't be attacked.

Why do you want scans at c. Thor can't him him with an attack at c. Not unless he wishes to hurt the other Avengers.

On his average showing Thor does not have those reflexes.

why not? his energy blasts (not only the omnidirectional ones) are below c?
how so?

thor on average deals with speedsters all the time. unless we stick to the "he's slower than wolverine" idiocy

Originally posted by batdude123
Lol, no he doesn't.

lol ok

Originally posted by Warlord
No sersi's illusions are visual projections too forming from cosmic power control. i remember her creating them from her hands. she can of course create mental illusions too as she's a telepath but the ones i've seen were as described above

Sersi's power source is cosmic, like any Eternal, but she's a telepath and has done more than project visuals. I don't recall her creating visuals from her hands (in fact, I think you're confusing her for Mantis in Guardians of the Galaxy), but even if she did that could just be her routing her conscious through her target audience... which would require telepathy. Sersi has also scanned the globe with her mind and often communicates without speaking.

Originally posted by Warlord
why not? his energy blasts (not only the omnidirectional ones) are below c?
how so?

thor on average deals with speedsters all the time. unless we stick to the "he's slower than wolverine" idiocy

Thor had to hit the ground to dispose of Quicksilver. Northstar flies.

Thor had issues with Osborns cronies in Siege and they're not speedsters. I'd argue this team has more power output then them (Barring the Sentry).

Originally posted by Konton
Sersi's power source is cosmic, like any Eternal, but she's a telepath and has done more than project visuals. I don't recall her creating visuals from her hands (in fact, I think you're confusing her for Mantis in Guardians of the Galaxy), but even if she did that could just be her routing her conscious through her target audience... which would require telepathy. Sersi has also scanned the globe with her mind and often communicates without speaking.

I never disregarded her tp.
she is a telepath for sure.
The ilussions I am talking about were coming through her hands in an old avengers issue just like projections

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Thor had to hit the ground to dispose of Quicksilver. Northstar flies.

Thor had issues with Osborns cronies in Siege and they're not speedsters. I'd argue this team has more power output then them.

he didn't shout magic energy blasts at him. why hitting the ground to ko him means he could not do it in some other way

did he have issues with their speed?
i don't think so. also pis instance

Originally posted by Warlord
he didn't shout magic energy blasts at him. why hitting the ground to ko him means he could not do it in some other way

did he have issues with their speed?
i don't think so

No but they didn't have issues with his speed. As does the majority of the people with human reflexes that he goes up against when he's with the Avengers.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Northstar is faster then Thor. He won't be attacked.

Why do you want scans at c. Thor can't hit him with an attack at c. Not unless he wishes to hurt the other Avengers.

Sure he will, Thor has plenty of AOE options.

Now, about those scans.

Thor didn't have issues with quicksilver's speed so that doesn't mean much.

anyway avengers win this and if people feel like debating Thor vs speedsters visit the omega red and gorgon vs thor thread

by the way ice man would be the biggest issue for me

Originally posted by Warlord
I never disregarded her tp.
she is a telepath for sure.
The ilussions I am talking about were coming through her hands in an old avengers issue just like projections

Then what's your point?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Sure he will, Thor has plenty of AOE options.

Now, about those scans.

I'm not sure, can't think of any. I know he's travelled with people using his superspeed. I have scans of that. I know he managed to save that one reject mutant from suffocating in the atmosphere in Eve of Destruction and then transported them both back to the battle field.

I don't understand why it needs to be at c though? Whatever speed he travels at he's still more then a match for thors reflexes especially with Namor, Iceman and Storm running interference. If you're gonna flood the place then you're just making Namor stronger.

Plus Iceman can end up in Thors stomach and freeze him from the inside. Or dehydrate him. He's done both.

Plus all the telepaths need to do is think.

Hulk will win this for the Avengers no doubt. But again the team have the tools to take Thor down.

Originally posted by Konton
Then what's your point?

illusions (holograms) vs illusions (mind affecting)

Then we are back to Thor taking out the TP users in the first attack and watching while the other 7 Avengers deal with the rest.

The main problem is the telepathic users. And that's probably where the last 3 pages of arguments have come from. Too lazy to read them. If Thor's involved, Moondragon's probably the example used. He had a showing where she freezes him back in the day. Unfortunately, since then, Thor has seemingly gotten more resistant to her attacks. Even in the showing where she influences him he illustrates influence. And there's also Blood and Thunder where he illustrates crazy good resistance, despite her having the Mind Gem.

Originally posted by Warlord
illusions (holograms) vs illusions (mind affecting)

But the hologram illusion is still just the tp user envisioning a projection and then using telepathy to show that projection to other people by routing it through their nervous system. Mantis explained this when she did it. The telepath is still clearly affecting the mind...