The Avengers vs The X-men

Thor's most notable showings of will power.

As a mortal, Thor resists the Enchantress, and breaks her embrace. Something no one had ever done yet.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ResistsEnchantress.jpg

Breaks free of the mental state he was placed in by Meru, the Mind Bender.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMeruMindBender.jpg

Proves to be immune to the mystic musical control of Ares.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsAvengers8.jpg

The Corruptor who has the ability to corrupt people with his evil touch -as he possesses the evil of all the ages combined- fails to overcome Thor’s will.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsCorruptor1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsCorruptor2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsCorruptor3.jpg

Resists a demonic psychic manifestation attempting to feed on the emotional energy he was emanating.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WillPower18.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WillPower19.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WillPower20.jpg

Withstands multiple psychic assaults from the Black Abbott and all of his bodies.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsBlackAbbott1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsBlackAbbott2.jpg

Despite taken by surprise, Thor resists the Rigellian Mind Thrust.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsMindThrust1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsMindThrust2.jpg

Later on, Thor isn't even slowed down by the Mind Thrust of multiple Rigellians.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsMindThrust3.jpg

Engages and defeats Kronin Krask in a battle of wills that is so intense, it is visible to the naked eye.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/WillPower9.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/WillPower10.jpg

Defeats the Fear-Eater by overcoming his greatest fear.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsFearEater1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsFearEater2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsFearEater3.jpg

Resists the Eye of Horus used by the Egyptian God Horus.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/DefeatsHorusEgyGod4.jpg

Doctor Druid fails to manipulate Thor’s thoughts.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorrResistsDoctorDruid1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorrResistsDoctorDruid2.jpg

Upon seeing Jane Foster in danger, Thor breaks free from the control of the Gypsy and her Mind Jewel.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ResistsGypsyControl2.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ResistsGypsyControl3.jpg
Note: This Jewel gave her enough power to easily take over the mind of someone as powerful as Firelord.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ResistsGypsyControl1.jpg

Breaks free from the control of an amped Puppet Master.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsPuppetMaster1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsPuppetMaster2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsPuppetMaster3.jpg

A teenage Thor resists the enchantment of Odin's magical Mirror.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMycha1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMycha2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMycha3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMycha4.jpg

Thor's is able to break down the mental barrier that hides the primal memories he inherited from Odin.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WillPower16.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WillPower17.jpg

Mind blasts from Moondragon -who possessed the Mind Gem- do not even slow Thor down.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/InfinityWatchvsThor1fight8.jpg

Thor is able to resist and stop Loki's spirit from merging with his body and mind.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsLokiSpirit1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsLokiSpirit2.jpg

After Thor allows Loki to enter his body, Thor forcefully casts him out.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsLokiSpirit3.jpg

The Hell Lord Mephisto is unable to break Thor's will despite subjecting him to terrible torture, tempting him with great gifts and even goes as far as consuming Thor's immortal soul. All to no avail.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMephisto3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMephisto4.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMephisto5.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsMephisto6.jpg

Using the long lost magical elixir of Lorn, Lorelei forces Thor to fall madly in love with her and obey her every command. However, upon seeing her with Loki and getting angry, Thor proves that the elixir is not infallible after all....
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsElixirofLofn1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsElixirofLofn2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsElixirofLofn4.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsElixirofLofn5.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsLoki53.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsLoki54.jpg

Withstands a mind blast from the cosmic being Stranger that none of the Avengers including Moondragon can do.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsMindBlastStranger.jpg
Note: Moondragon even comments on how the Stranger seemed nearly omnipotent in terms of psychic power.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsMindBlastStranger2.jpg

Thor resists the mental spell of the Dromedan himself.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsDromedan1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsDromedan2.jpg

Thor is able to withstand a mental assault from Dromedan again. The same assault also put down the great Eternals Virako and Valkin.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsDromedan3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsDromedan4.jpg

Thor once more gets mentally attacked and withstands the Dromedan.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistsDromedan5.jpg

Darkoth uses his brainwave manipulating firehorns to turn Thor's own indomitable awesome will on himself and where another would have fallen, Thor stands.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsDarkoth5.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsDarkoth6.jpg

Thor is the first Avenger to realize that Morgan was warping reality using the Twilight Sword and then resists her control over his mind.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistMorganLeFay1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ResistMorganLeFay2.jpg

Thor overcomes the destructive nature of the Destroyer armor when he takes control of it.
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WillPower14.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WillPower15.jpg
Thor once again overcomes the will of the Destroyer when he defeats it in battle. Notice how the Destroyer was shitting itself once it realized it was facing Thor.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsDestroyer1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsDestroyer2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsDestroyer3.jpg

Thor resists the mental attack of Sandu, a mutant significantly amped by Loki.
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/Thor/WithstandsSandu1.jpg
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/Thor/WithstandsSandu2.jpg
[b]Note: Professor Xavier himself calls Sandu a telepathic mutant of unfathomable power.
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/Thor/WithstandsSandu3.jpg

Moondragon with help from the Mind Gem is barely able to break Thor's mental defenses even in a catatonic state.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill2.jpg

It turns out however that Thor was playing possum so as to get Thanos, Dr. Strange, the Silver Surfer, Drax, Adam Warlock, Moondragon, and Maxam onto a psychic plane of existence. Here he engages them all in a battle of will and successfully traps them in a maelstrom of madness. Their one and only chance was to combine all of their wills with that of Thanos into a sudden attack to barely break free.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill4.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill5.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill6.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill7.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill8.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill9.jpg

In a fight that defies mortal comprehension, Odin attempts to spiritually/mentally defeat a portion of Thor's psyche and fails.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill10.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorInsaneWill11.jpg[/b]

Originally posted by Konton
But the hologram illusion is still just the tp user envisioning a projection and then using telepathy to show that projection to other people by routing it through their nervous system. Mantis explained this when she did it. The telepath is still clearly affecting the mind...

in sersi's case the illusion was springing from her hands...
some form of energy projection.

I don't say she cannot do it via tp, but in that case it was not illustrated this way.

anyway... avengers have this

That Sandu feat is pretty good, and that's from an early Thor, too. All things considered, Thor has some some good mental resistant feats to argue against the times he's been mind controlled or had his thoughts read to make it worth arguing that it could or couldn't happen. I don't see how anyone is being a Thor "fanboy" by using concrete examples of feats and showings to shed doubt that a telepathic assault would be an auto-win for the X-Men or likewise arguing whether or not Rogue's draining would be effective immediately enough to turn the tide or if she'd be able to do it before she was struck by Mjolnir or lightning or something.

It's missing a scan. Here's Sandu effectively being resisted:
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/Thor/WithstandsSandu4.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The main problem is the telepathic users. And that's probably where the last 3 pages of arguments have come from. Too lazy to read them. If Thor's involved, Moondragon's probably the example used. He had a showing where she freezes him back in the day. Unfortunately, since then, Thor has seemingly gotten more resistant to her attacks. Even in the showing where she influences him he illustrates influence. And there's also Blood and Thunder where he illustrates crazy good resistance, despite her having the Mind Gem.

I will get through that list when I have time, some of the stuff are good feats, some of the stuff you've listed is magic orientated like the Enchantress, Ares, Lorlei and Morgana. I think the one instance you're quoting is when he was Warrior Madness Thor. And IRRC the madness was the reason stated in the issue why she had so much trouble with his mind.

It wasn't just Moondragon scan, There's a Bedlam scan as well.

BTW The feat with the Stranger needs to be updated. That was Toad not the Stranger.

This here is Toad using one of the Strangers machines to cast an illusion. He tricked all the Avengers.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsMindBlastStranger.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsMindBlastStranger2.jpg

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That Sandu feat is pretty good, and that's from an early Thor, too. All things considered, Thor has some some good mental resistant feats to argue against the times he's been mind controlled or had his thoughts read to make it worth arguing that it could or couldn't happen. I don't see how anyone is being a Thor "fanboy" by using concrete examples of feats and showings to shed doubt that a telepathic assault would be an auto-win for the X-Men or likewise arguing whether or not Rogue's draining would be effective immediately enough to turn the tide or if she'd be able to do it before she was struck by Mjolnir or lightning or something.

I wasn't saying that user was a fanboy for saying that Thor could resist a telepathic assault. I was saying it because he was disregarding both of the times when Rogue KO'd him with a touch because he didn't like them. If you read what I said I never said anything about Rogue beating Thor in a one on one. She obviously would have to get near enough. The debate was a separate one involving Rogues powers and their effects on him. Canon Rogue has knocked him out with a single touch twice.

Those are the only times when Rogue ever tried to use her powers on him. Her powers work differently on Ares and Loki but Thor they work fine until shown otherwise.

Regardless, I said the Avengers would take it because of Hulk and I still think that team has the tools to take out Thor.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I will get through that list when I have time, some of the stuff are good feats, some of the stuff you've listed is magic orientated like the Enchantress and Morgana. I think the one instance you're quoting is when he was Warrior Madness Thor. And that was stated in the issue why she had so much trouble with his mind.

BTW The feat with the Stranger needs to be updated. That was Toad.

This here is Toad using one of the Strangers machines to cast an illusion. He tricked all the Avengers.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsMindBlastStranger.jpghttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ResistsMindBlastStranger2.jpg

You could argue Thor's mystical back ground offers him better natural resistance but said resistance comes from his will power not an inherent immunity or anything of the sort. Any time he resists a mental attack or manipulation, it's a feat. Not as clear cut as others, but it still matters. The difficulty isn't in getting into his mind.

It was because Thor was in such a rage or whatever. Apparently a pissed off Thor > telepathic assault from Moondragon and the Mind Gem. Makes sense based on his history actually.

The feat occurred in Avengers #138 IIRC. Are you sure it was Toad? How did he replicate the mind storm? If he used a machine to do it, then it doesn't matter. Thor still withstood a mental based assault that Moondragon could not. If it was not a mental power attack, that's a different story. It's been about 3 years since I read the older Avengers issues so I'm not 100% sure.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You could argue Thor's mystical back ground offers him better natural resistance but that's about it. Thor's resistance comes from will power not an inherent immunity or anything of the sort. Any time he resists a mental attack or manipulation, it's a feat.

It was because Thor was in such a rage or whatever. Apparently a pissed off Thor > telepathic assault from Moondragon and the Mind Gem.

The feat occurred in Avengers #138 IIRC. Are you sure it was Toad? How did he replicate the mind storm? If he used a machine to do it, the feat still stands. It's been about 3 years since I read the older Avengers issues so I'm not 100% sure.

I'd say his mystical background offers him natural resistance to magic. But I'd say his susceptibility to telepathy seems fine. In some of the scans which you posted that were actual telepathy it still effected him he may have resisted eventually but it still effected him in some cases brought him down to his knees.
I believe the Exemplar Bedlam took him down twice. Then there's Moondragon.

I'd argue he has a good chance of resisting one of the three telepaths. But there's 3 of them. Even in a comic I doubt that would ever happen. Not all three at the same time. Not unless he had some sort of amp.

It said he was insane, apparently that made it harder for Moondragon. It's also the reason why he broke the Goddess's influence.

Yep 137/138. It's definitely Toad I posted the scans early on in the thread. He tricked all of them with that machine into thinking that was the Stranger. So that's another time he's been baboozled.

Moondragon scares the illusion off in 137 with her mental powers.

See Toad:

http://img856.imageshack.us/i/avengersv1138page19.jpg/

I've been going through everything X-Men related for the last few months. Beast was in the Avengers from that period so I read all that. So that's how I remembered that.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I'd say his mystical background offers him natural resistance to magic. But I'd say his susceptibility to telepathy seems fine. In some of the scans which you posted that were actual telepathy it still effected him he may have resisted eventually but it still effected him in some cases brought him down to his knees.

Like I said, Thor's not immune to telepathy; getting into his head isn't the problem. I think high end Telepaths like Moondragon, Xavier etc. should definitely be able to do it. It's overcoming his will that's the problem.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I believe the Exemplar Bedlam took him down twice. Then there's Moondragon.

She did this once to Thor:
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/Thor/Bedlam1.jpg
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/Thor/Bedlam2.jpg

As you can see, her telepathic assault hurt Thor but he was fine.

I don't have access to Iron Man #22 or the Eighth Day one shot to make sure her telepathy is never directly used against Thor again.

What other scene are you referring to?

The best Moondragon has ever done is froze Thor. Since then, she's become less and less effective against him. Thor has feats against Moondragon herself to counter that.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I'd argue he has a good chance of resisting one of the three telepaths. But there's 3 of them. Even in a comic I doubt that would ever happen. Not all three at the same time.

Why would all three telepaths target Thor at the same time? I don't think he can withstand a telepathic assault from all 3 unless his in a rage or such.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It said he was insane, apparently that made it harder for Moondragon. It's also the reason why he broke the Goddess's influence.

It wasn't attributed specifically to his insanity but to his rage. The same occurred in the scene with the Goddess. He was under her influence until he got pissed off, and then it broke. Which like I said makes sense. The more pissed off he is, the less effective mental assaults seem to become.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Yep 137/138. It's definitely Toad I posted the scans early on in the thread. He tricked all of them with that machine into thinking that was the Stranger. So that's another time he's been baboozled.

Moondragon scares the illusion off in 137 with her mental powers.

Hardly a knock against Thor. So did that machine replicate mental powers? If so, it's still a feat for Thor. I'll take out the comic later.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Like I said, Thor's not immune to telepathy; getting into his head isn't the problem. I think high end Telepaths like Moondragon, Xavier etc. should definitely be able to do it. It's overcoming his will that's the problem.

She did this once to Thor:
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/Thor/Bedlam1.jpg
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/Thor/Bedlam2.jpg

As you can see, her telepathic assault hurt Thor but he was fine.

I don't have access to Iron Man #22 or the Eighth Day one shot to make sure her telepathy is never directly used against Thor again.

What other scene are you referring to?

Sound, Eighth Day One-shot. Posted it earlier in the thread. She freezes all of them telepathically.

The best Moondragon has ever done is froze Thor. Since then, she's become less and less effective against him. Thor has feats against Moondragon herself to counter that.

Did she not bring him to the ground in that Blood and Thunder arc...a few pages before he resists her mind blast.

Why would all three telepaths target Thor at the same time? I don't think he can withstand a telepathic assault from all 3 unless his in a rage or such.

Sound. This is all I wanted to hear.

It wasn't attributed specifically to his insanity but to his rage. The same occurred in the scene with the Goddess. He was under her influence until he got pissed off, and then it broke. Which like I said makes sense. The more pissed off he is, the less effective mental assaults seem to become.

The Goddess attributed it to his insanity though. Posted the scans earlier in the thread.

Hardly a knock against Thor. So did that machine replicate mental powers? If so, it's still a feat for Thor. I'll take out the comic later. [/B]

I think it was just illusions. That's how Toad describes it.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Sound, Eighth Day One-shot. Posted it earlier in the thread. She freezes all of them telepathically.

Oh, I remember what you're talking about. IIRC, she hurts Thor and co. with a surprise telepathic attack for a few moments until Xavier intervenes. It didn' take Thor out IIRC. Not one I'd call a bad showing. She was definitely an Xavier level telepath imo. I'd also argue that if Thor was pushed, he'd resist her attack like he does against others akin to Cain.

It should be noted, my argument isn't that Thor is immune to telepathic assault. It's that Thor can resist them when he needs to which I think is one that's supported by his history.

I'll look for them later.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Did she not bring him to the ground in that Blood and Thunder arc...a few pages before he resists her mind blast.

I'm pretty certain she used the Mind Gem to try and remove the Valkyrie from his mind, and he collapsed. Thor's psyche was actually pretty fragile. His spirit was reduced to bits and pieces. She was smart in trying to cure him indirectly but it back fired.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
The Goddess attributed it to his insanity though. Posted the scans earlier in the thread.

Did she not outright say that an Asgardian spirit was too tough to tame? I remember her then adding that Thor was also insane but his resistance was the main reason IIRC. Which is in line with the scene.

Cool, I'll look for them later as well.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I think it was just illusions. That's how Toad describes it.

Are you sure his not referring to the Strange thing? The narration refers to a mind storm that even affects there mind (Image of Scarlet Witch) and later on Moondgragon comments on how that version lacked mental based powers when previously he was nigh omnipotent in that regard. Telepathic abilities had to be duplicated in some regard.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Oh, I remember what you're talking about. IIRC, she hurts Thor and co. with a surprise telepathic attack for a few moments until Xavier intervenes. Not one I'd call a bad showing. She was definitely an Xavier level telepath imo. I'd also argue that if Thor was pushed, he'd resist her attack like he does against others.

It should be noted, my argument isn't that Thor is immune to telepathic assault. It's that Thor can resist them when he needs to which I think is one that's supported by his history.

I'll look for them later.

That's the one.

I'm pretty certain she used the Mind Gem to try and remove the Valkyrie from his mind, and he collapsed. Thor's psyche was actually pretty fragile. His spirit was reduced to bits and pieces. She was smart in trying to cure him indirectly but it back fired.

She made SIF solid or something.

Did she not outright say that an Asgardian spirit was too tough to tame? I remember her then adding that Thor was also insane but his resistance was the main reason IIRC. Which is in line with the scene.

She says both. I don't think she gives a main reason.

Are you sure his not referring to only the Strange thing? The narration refers to a mind storm that even affects there mind (Image of Scarlet Witch) and later on Moondgragon comments on how that version lacked mental based powers when previously he was nigh omnipotent in that regard. Telepathic abilities had to be duplicated in some regard. [/B]

He mentions being able to use the equipment because of hanging out with Mastermind. He doesn't really mention anything else. Could be a telepathic illusion in everyones minds.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
She made SIF solid or something.

Not Sif, the Valkyrie which was a creation of Thor's broken psyche.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
She says both. I don't think she gives a main reason.

IIRC, Moondragon asks how Thor did what he did, and the Goddess says it's because Thor's Asgardian spirit was too tough to tame. She then goes on by saying "his also" insane or whatever.

It was explained pretty clearly as to what the main reason was imo. And that was even before Thor fully descended into the Madness.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
He mentions being able to use the equipment because of hanging out with Mastermind. He doesn't really mention anything else. Could be a telepathic illusion in everyones minds.

Possibly, but there definitely some really powerful telepathy involved in some way and Thor withstood the attack better than Moondragon.

Northstar gets rid of hulk very far, Iceman collects everyone