Originally posted by DeadlineAgain, not me. This is what the vast resources of mystical literature say.
You're strawmanning. I'm not arguing that people don't associate highier states of conciousness with God or ESP. What I'm arguing is that you seem to think there has to be an inherent connection. It doesn't really matter wether its transcedental or not even the afterlife doesn't have to have anything to do with God.
Originally posted by DeadlineSomeone wrote a book. Ok. Yes. That's what I've been saying.
So far all the only reason why you think there has to be a connection is because somebody wrote in a book. Hell even this argument that ESP is transcedent and 'defys' physics is faulty. Clearly some scientists think it exists and all ESP is something we don't quite understand yet.
Talk about strawmanning.
I had always thought we had some common ground here. Apparently not. That's cool.
Originally posted by Super Marie 64
[b]You included them in a comparing manner. "Anti-Religious Agnostic" sticking out the most. It's bound to be misunderstood. [/B]
I wasn't comparing.
I said [imo] most Atheist (at least by one view it seems) today are closer to being anti-religious agnostics. ie they're against organized religion's view of God but they're not opposed to the possibility of there being a God/Higher-Power/Force etc.
edit: inimalist beat me to it
Originally posted by Super Marie 64I agree more than most might expect. I believe most, if not all, of what God does is through "science" and the unexplainable stuff is just things we don't understand that science yet.
[b]You're all doing this so much harder than it has to be:Science is God.
That makes both sides right. /Thread
[/B]
Originally posted by Robtard
I wasn't comparing.I said [imo] most Atheist (at least by one view it seems) today are closer to being anti-religious agnostics. ie they're against organized religion's view of God but they're not opposed to the possibility of there being a God/Higher-Power/Force etc.
edit: inimalist beat me to it
Then I apologize.
The only computer I have access to freezes and deletes my posts constantly. I responded to about 7 posts, then lost all of it. I have to stop posting here until I get a regular computer back. Sorry guys, I had every intention of contuining the conversation I started a page or so back. But I simply don't have the time, especially considering the often verbose nature of this forum.
I'm done for a bit in religion as a result. It's happened one too many times for me to keep wasting my time. Just assume I brilliantly rebutted everything against me, and glowingly prasied everyone that agreed with me.
fdog
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, that is kind of my point, I don't see a way your God can prove himself, the same reason people can say "you can't disprove my God" are the ones that also make it impossible to "prove" that type of God.
You can't think of a way that God could prove himself to everyone in an undeniable way (unless they are loons)?
Originally posted by Digi
The only computer I have access to freezes and deletes my posts constantly. I responded to about 7 posts, then lost all of it. I have to stop posting here until I get a regular computer back. Sorry guys, I had every intention of contuining the conversation I started a page or so back. But I simply don't have the time, especially considering the often verbose nature of this forum.I'm done for a bit in religion as a result. It's happened one too many times for me to keep wasting my time. Just assume I brilliantly rebutted everything against me, and glowingly prasied everyone that agreed with me.
fdog
I do not like the idea that people can pick and choose labels when there are clear labels for their ideas.
In other words, I do not like it when someone claims to be an atheist when they are actually closer to apatheistic or agnostic. Claim that you do not believe in any remote possibility of a God or chose a different label for yourself. I believe people like to claim atheist the same way some people avoid calling themselves pescetarians and instead just say they are "vegetarians" because it's much easier to say that OR they are not aware that there are other labels for their ideas.
It isn't like taxonomy with many different types of beliefs under the umbrella of Atheism (okay, that's wrong...but there is another point there to be made, not the pedantic interpretation of it. I don't mean things like implicit and explicit atheism, I mean the very basic definition of "not believing in a God, Gods, or the potential for the previous two". Here's a better definition: "the complete lack of a belief in any diety.). I hear things like "pratical atheism" and, to me, that just is not atheism.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I do not like the idea that people can pick and choose labels when there are clear labels for their ideas.In other words, I do not like it when someone claims to be an atheist when they are actually closer to apatheistic or agnostic. Claim that you do not believe in any remote possibility of a God or chose a different label for yourself. I believe people like to claim atheist the same way some people avoid calling themselves pescetarians and instead just say they are "vegetarians" because it's much easier to say that OR they are not aware that there are other labels for their ideas.
It isn't like taxonomy with many different types of beliefs under the umbrella of Atheism (okay, that's wrong...but there is another point there to be made, not the pedantic interpretation of it. I don't mean things like implicit and explicit atheism, I mean the very basic definition of "not believing in a God, Gods, or the potential for the previous two". Here's a better definition: "the complete lack of a belief in any diety.). I hear things like "pratical atheism" and, to me, that just is not atheism.
Yeah, I talk to people a lot who call themselves atheists but don't really understand what that means. If you think there might be a God or gods out there, you aren't an atheist. Simple as that. 😉
Originally posted by Robtard
I wasn't comparing.I said [imo] most Atheist (at least by one view it seems) today are closer to being anti-religious agnostics. ie they're against organized religion's view of God but they're not opposed to the possibility of there being a God/Higher-Power/Force etc.
edit: inimalist beat me to it
I hope that is true and that I have merely been unlucky with the type of Atheists I met.
Most I meet are not only anti-religious, but certain in their convictions that God isn't real.
The closest one I've met is actually a theist, but she is truly and utterly non-religious. As in, absolutely has no religion - but she believes in God. She doesn't know what it is, but she believes it's there.
Her belief is based on the fact that she wants to do something with herself, she wants to help people and be a better person and use all her talents, so that, as she says, when she stands in front of whatever God is, she can say that she has used everything she/it gave her.
Her god has no eating issues, has no sex issues, has no morality issues - her God just is. And that was by far the most fascinating theist I have ever met in my entire life.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Surely you jest.There's nothing...I mean nothing...that you're imagination cannot come up with? (I have come up with no less than 8 different ways, right off the top of my head.)
There's nothing, the God most Christians believe in is so immensely powerful it is impossible to comprehend him with our measely knowledge. I believe that with our scientific knowledge at the level we are, to fake that you are omnipotent is probably not too far off in the future even for us.
Even if he made everyone believe he is God (including me) with the snap of his finger, does that prove he is "The omnipotent, omniscient God"? No, it just proves he can influence and change people's mind easily. We are too limited to ever know whether something like that God exists, at least in this universe. And as far as I know your belief even agrees to a degree and says that some "veil" needs to be lifted (although apparently that may work within the universe, how you'd tell that it's not just fanatism though, I'm not sure).
So, yes, there is no conceivable way the God, incredibly powerful creator God (leaving the paradox of omnipotence aside, as I agree it's not important) can prove himself to me, I am just too limited.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I think its true, Lil.I'm certain in my convictions that the god or gods as portrayed by any religion I've encountered isn't real.
Naturally I cannot speak for anything i've not encountered/heard of yet.
I feel this is merely reasonable....nothing more.
You see, that is exactly what I'm talking about. You feel reasonable. Saying that you're implying that those who don't believe the same thing as you are not reasonable.
I am yet to meet an atheist who doesn't have superiority issues. Not saying you have, but in general. Haven't met nor spoken to one as of yet.