Originally posted by D_Dude1210It wasn't pulverized but it was shattered as shown. But I agree, it takes more force to pulverize something than to break it into two pieces.
Back to making up figures again arent we? :-/Also, he flew thru the moon. Was there ever any indication that he shattered it? Fyi, takes vastly less energy to fly thru a moon than it is to create enough force to shatter it (making its parts overcome its gravity).
But that feat had nothing to do with strength but rather durability, as Superman was koed.
Also the feat was clearly a low showing as Superman has feats that trump that easily.
Originally posted by h1a8
It wasn't pulverized but it was shattered as shown. But I agree, it takes more force to pulverize something than to break it into two pieces.But that feat had nothing to do with strength but rather durability, as Superman was koed.
Also the feat was clearly a low showing as Superman has feats that trump that easily.
I never mentioned the moon-KO, btw. I talked about the moon he flew threw when Lex became President. I'm willing to accept that Supes has planetary-level feats but you and the others in the pro-Supes camp need to accept that Supes and Hulk are peers strength-wise.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
The pro-Superman camp was the one guilty of lowballing here, not the pro-Hulk side (w/c I'm not even part of as I feel that BA is the best choice). Ain't NO way Supes is one-shotting the Hulk. Ain't no way he's vastly stronger. They're peers strength-eise at the very least and any kind of claim otherwise is just Super-wanking.
Now a normal Superman is peers with Hulk (providing Hulk is angry enough only). But this is a bloodlusted Superman, which is on a whole different level of power. Also, being one shot by someone has nothing to do with your strength but with your durability. In the ACTUAL comics of WWH we have him getting rocked by Hercules, Sentry, and even Thing (which I can ignore here). A normal Superman is stronger than those guys (by feats of strength). A bloodlusted Superman is way stronger than those guys. I would be nice and say that one of a bloodlusted Superman's punches have more than 3 times the power of Hercules (although I feel it is more). That means for every 3 blows Hercules gave Hulk would equal one of Superman's blows.
So Superman can indeed two-three shot WWH (if not one shot him).
Originally posted by D_Dude1210They are only peers because of Hulk's potential of growing strength. No way does any Hulk start anywhere near Superman's level of strength. You can't gauge Superman's top
I never mentioned the moon-KO, btw. I talked about the moon he flew threw when Lex became President. I'm willing to accept that Supes has planetary-level feats but you and the others in the pro-Supes camp need to accept that Supes and Hulk are peers strength-wise.
Originally posted by 753
oh really?
what is SM's best strengh feat bloodlusted or not, that you believe the hulk cant match?
As far as quantifiable feats only, where no version of Hulk has ever achieved the level of strength YET, there are many.
Here are some:
1. Maggedon
2. Black hole holding and escaping
3. planet sufficient moving (moving planet with significant acceleration much greater than g)
4. I think someone here posted a scan of Superman throwing a freaking star.
But strength has nothing to do with this fight as I'm not a believer that strength quantifies someones durability across the board.
For example, character X may be stronger than character Y but character Y has slightly greater durability.
WWH hasn't shown the durability to withstand a couple of bloodlusted Superman blows. In all of his confrontations with super power beings he got seriously rocked. The Hercules fight almost made him unconscious.
Originally posted by h1a8
Now a normal Superman is peers with Hulk (providing Hulk is angry enough only). But this is a bloodlusted Superman, which is on a whole different level of power. Also, being one shot by someone has nothing to do with your strength but with your durability. In the ACTUAL comics of WWH we have him getting rocked by Hercules, Sentry, and even Thing (which I can ignore here). A normal Superman is stronger than those guys (by feats of strength). A bloodlusted Superman is way stronger than those guys. I would be nice and say that one of a bloodlusted Superman's punches have more than 3 times the power of Hercules (although I feel it is more). That means for every 3 blows Hercules gave Hulk would equal one of Superman's blows.
So Superman can indeed two-three shot WWH (if not one shot him).They are only peers because of Hulk's potential of growing strength. No way does any Hulk start anywhere near Superman's level of strength. You can't gauge Superman's top strength in most comics simply because he holds back and has mental blocks. Now if Superman played around with Hulk for awhile they become peers and Hulk surpasses him. But certainly not in the beginning.
The "holding back" argument is a copout and you know it. Especially since you've posted Supe's top-end feats where he really didn't have a reason to "hold back" (pulling a planet with help, Mageddon, the black hole feat, etc). FYI, the "mini black hole" is a durability feat and it isn't really all that good, Havoc's been able to duplicate it and he's nowhere near WWH-level.
Also, how many times do we need to go back to pulling strength =/= punching power. Just because Supes has been shown to be able to pull more weight, doesn't TRANSLATE to him being able to punch harder. We use punching/impact feats for that.
And durability?? You mention that Supes can 2-3 shot WWH, but what about Supes? You mentioned that being KOd by the moon is a durability feat. Basically, using this line of logic, the force needed to shatter a moon KOd Superman. A WEAKER Hulk shattered a planet 2x the size of Earth (w/c in turn is many times larger than the moon). With this, one can argue that Hulk can deliver FAR MORE power than what was necessary to KO Superman in one blow based on this line of logic.
And now you're lowballing Herc and (by extension) Thor.
Originally posted by h1a8
1. Maggedon
2. Black hole holding and escaping
3. planet sufficient moving (moving planet with significant acceleration much greater than g)
4. I think someone here posted a scan of Superman throwing a freaking star.
1. Quantify that.
2. Not all that impressive. Mini-Blackholes happen in Hadron colliders all the time. Size matters in Black Holes, FYI. Havoc's been able to contain a Black hole in his hand as well.
3. Pulling =/= Punching power.
4. I think you're talking about the Surfer feat and that wasn't a star and it wasn't canon.
Edit. Now I had to get out of bed and turn on my PC just to respond to all this crap....! >_<
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Just making sure - are you saying this because you assume h1 doesn't have the ability to argue otherwise - or - it's just a matter of you actually being dumb?
2. Not all that impressive. Mini-Blackholes happen in Hadron colliders all the time. Size matters in Black Holes, FYI. Havoc's been able to contain a Black hole in his hand as well
Originally posted by Philosophía
Just making sure - are you saying this because you assume h1 doesn't have the ability to argue otherwise - or - it's just a matter of you actually being dumb?
You gonna make an argument or are you just gonna go "duuuh! You're duuum!!!111!!oneone"?
Seriously, is your self-esteem so low that all you do online is to try and talk down to ppl? Its pretty juvenile.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Strength does equate to punching power (in reality as well as comics). In reality strength= force=ma that means the more the strength the more the force. In comics, this is backed up in many places. That Hulk wasn't weaker than WWH (but stronger) when he did the feat. He was only weaker outside the feat. The feat is really PIS to be honest. But to accept it is to accept that at that moment Hulk was stronger than he ever has been (even WWH). Also the Superman being koed by the moon thing is a lowballing. Superman's durability feats exceed that by quite a margin.
The "holding back" argument is a copout and you know it. Especially since you've posted Supe's top-end feats where he really didn't have a reason to "hold back" (pulling a planet with help, Mageddon, the black hole feat, etc). FYI, the "mini black hole" is a durability feat and it isn't really all that good, Havoc's been able to duplicate it and he's nowhere near WWH-level.Also, how many times do we need to go back to pulling strength =/= punching power. Just because Supes has been shown to be able to pull more weight, doesn't TRANSLATE to him being able to punch harder. We use punching/impact feats for that.
And durability?? You mention that Supes can 2-3 shot WWH, but what about Supes? You mentioned that being KOd by the moon is a durability feat. Basically, using this line of logic, the force needed to shatter a moon KOd Superman. A WEAKER Hulk shattered a planet 2x the size of Earth (w/c in turn is many times larger than the moon). With this, one can argue that Hulk can deliver FAR MORE power than what was necessary to KO Superman in one blow based on this line of logic.
And now you're lowballing Herc and (by extension) Thor.
I'm not lowballing Herc but actually wanking him. He rocked the hell out of WWH in only a few blows (in which he might have been holding back). How is this lowballing? Hercules never shown that type of power against Hulk (weaker versions at that).
1. Quantify that.
2. Not all that impressive. Mini-Blackholes happen in Hadron colliders all the time. Size matters in Black Holes, FYI. Havoc's been able to contain a Black hole in his hand as well.
3. Pulling =/= Punching power.
4. I think you're talking about the Surfer feat and that wasn't a star and it wasn't canon.Edit. Now I had to get out of bed and turn on my PC just to respond to all this crap....! >_<
1. If supplying 1/3 of the force to accelerate the Earth to a decent speed in short amount of time equates to more 50 Earth weights of force, then similarly accelerating something more than 100 times bigger is more than 5000 Earth weights of force. This is greater than anything Hulk has ever done in his entire history.
2. Didn't know it was a mini black hole. Well disregard it.
3. Pulling power does equate to punching power, as shown in comics.
The problem here is I think Superman's strength gives him his speed, as F=ma. Taking away his speed and him keeping his strength makes no sense in the real world. But for comic logic we must except it. So the force use to pull could be used to accelerate one's fist to do damage.
4. Surfer's feat? What are you talking about? I have no idea whether it was canon or not as someone here posted the scan. But it was certainly Superman who did it. And it was a star as both shown and stated on panel.
Originally posted by h1a8
Hulk can match anything, provided he is angered enough.
Just not in the beginning.As far as quantifiable feats only, where no version of Hulk has ever achieved the level of strength YET, there are many.
Here are some:
1. Maggedon
2. Black hole holding and escaping
3. planet sufficient moving (moving planet with significant acceleration much greater than g)
4. I think someone here posted a scan of Superman throwing a freaking star.But strength has nothing to do with this fight as I'm not a believer that strength quantifies someones durability across the board.
For example, character X may be stronger than character Y but character Y has slightly greater durability.WWH hasn't shown the durability to withstand a couple of bloodlusted Superman blows. In all of his confrontations with super power beings he got seriously rocked. The Hercules fight almost made him unconscious.
hulk punched through a time-storm when kang sent him back in time.
Originally posted by h1a8
Strength does equate to punching power (in reality as well as comics). In reality strength= force=ma that means the more the strength the more the force. In comics, this is backed up in many places. That Hulk wasn't weaker than WWH (but stronger) when he did the feat. He was only weaker outside the feat. The feat is really PIS to be honest. But to accept it is to accept that at that moment Hulk was stronger than he ever has been (even WWH). Also the Superman being koed by the moon thing is a lowballing. Superman's durability feats exceed that by quite a margin.
See below.
Also, you can call it PIS if you want. But isn't it hypocritical then to use the Maggedon feat as by your computation (w/c I strongly disagree with) Superman is lifting weights he's never shown to be able to do so (5000 Earth weights)? That, in itself, is YOUR definition of PIS as well.
Originally posted by h1a8
I'm not lowballing Herc but actually wanking him. He rocked the hell out of WWH in only a few blows (in which he might have been holding back). How is this lowballing? Hercules never shown that type of power against Hulk (weaker versions at that).
It's lowballing Herc to state that Superman has 3x the punching power he has.
Originally posted by h1a8
1. If supplying 1/3 of the force to accelerate the Earth to a decent speed in short amount of time equates to more 50 Earth weights of force, then similarly accelerating something more than 100 times bigger is more than 5000 Earth weights of force. This is greater than anything Hulk has ever done in his entire history.2. Didn't know it was a mini black hole. Well disregard it.
3. Pulling power does equate to punching power, as shown in comics.
The problem here is I think Superman's strength gives him his speed, as F=ma. Taking away his speed and him keeping his strength makes no sense in the real world. But for comic logic we must except it. So the force use to pull could be used to accelerate one's fist to do damage.4. Surfer's feat? What are you talking about? I have no idea whether it was canon or not as someone here posted the scan. But it was certainly Superman who did it. And it was a star as both shown and stated on panel.
1. Where do you keep getting this "50 Earth weights" computation of yours?? I remember us 2 having this debate before and you never really conclusively proved your computation was accurate.
Also, he was simply turning the wheels )of Mageddon, where does it say here that he was pulling all of 100 Earth weights BS that you keep throwing around?
2. Good enough.
3. But feats argue otherwise. Applying RL physics in quantities and computations with the levels of unquantifiables present in the feats in question is simply impractical. With that, we base it on feats. In a fight, pulling is irrelevant and punching is not. You need to show Supe's punching feats in order to make a good case of arguing whether or not he'll win a fight. With the SHEER WEALTH of showing Superman has and the FACT that he fights mostly by punching something, you should have NO PROBLEM showing me the upper limits of his physical punching power.
4. We must be talking about different things. Pls supply this star-throwing feat if you can.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Only to dumb and/or ignorant people. Which there are quite a few, actually. The rest I get along just fine.
Seriously, your self-esteem so low that all you do online is to try and talk down to ppl? Its pretty juvenile.
You're mis-informed and purposley, I assume, spreading the idiocies around. Do you even understand why the blackholes in the hadron colliders are harmless?
(1). Because they emit more radiation than the matter they consume, thus vanish and exist for time intervals so small (bilionth of a trilionth of a trilionth of a second) that they're insignificant.
And an alternative theory to the one above, devised just in case that the aforementioned is wrong:
(2). Because those are so infinitly small that it would take more than the age of the entire universe for them to consume a miligram of Earth material.
And all these are theoretical aspects, that haven't actually been shown to exist.
How do either of them apply to the blackhole Superman contained? They don't. The blackhole had none of those impediments. It was capable of consuming the entire solar system had it been released in a matter of moments.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/blackholeinpalm2.jpg
And Superman was experiencing the gravitational effects of the blackhole first-hand; it had begun bending everything as soon as it had been released.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/blackholeinpalm3.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/blackholeinpalm4.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/blackholeinpalm5.jpg
Furthermore, the size of the blackhole only matters in the sense that it determines how long it's going to last, and determines the event horizon/how fast it's actually going to consume matter. The actual pressure at the heart of the blackhole is still the same. If you don't understand that, whether Superman stands at the center of a blackhole as big as a galaxy, or one as big as a house, the pressure is experiencing is still the same - infinite gravity.
The fact that Superman was able to physically hold the blackhole itself (infinite gravity) into his hand, is both a measure of his strength
and durability - and if you want it to compare it, it takes infinitley - literally - more strength and durability than what Hulk has done.
So this is, in fact, the 3rd post-Crisis feat where Superman has demonstrated infinite strength. Nice, right?
I don't use arguments and would rather point out that you're spilling idiocies because it's generally a waste of my time. I'm not talking down to you to make myself feel better - I talk that way because you're bathing in ignorance but talk as if you're right. You're not. Try not to act arrogant and knowledgeable while posting only stupidities, and then call me arogant and condescending.
