HOTU vs. The Presence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How could you miss my scans that I put up ? I even put up some up for you.

Didio has stated they aren't canon but i fhe later decides to make something canon he does. He also hasn't made constantine canon to the dcu. Vertigo is very mature and of course whenever the chance presents itself to make a buck you can have characters jumping over but that doesn't make lucifer canon when it's never been referenced ever as canon to the dcu other than his appearances in the dcu.

Stated by himself as a means to explain the story. His actions also made it clear he was supreme.

I never have believed two supreme beings are equal. To me that's a cop out. If you take one supreme being from one planet and take another from another planet are they equal or is one just mightier ?

Sorry. shrug

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt on the Didio thing. What does that change?

Statements by the character themselves are always kind of iffy. What actions are you talking about?

You'd have to prove one was mightier than an omnipotent, omniscient being. Seems a bit difficult.

Supreme IS supreme.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, he was god in that universe but Lt is outside that universe.

i DO believe he was supreme, i'm just pointing out the flawed logic.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Sorry. shrug

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt on the Didio thing. What does that change?

Statements by the character themselves are always kind of iffy. What actions are you talking about?

You'd have to prove one was mightier than an omnipotent, omniscient being. Seems a bit difficult.

Supreme IS supreme.

I also believe mr. m has put up the interview stating he was supreme. It was the writer's intent.

I don't think any being is all knowing in the truest definition. I think maybe in their own realities they might get to the bottom of everything but against each other it comes down to who can beat the other. I think Thanos has the means to do so. I don't think the presence has the means to. That's how I have always looked at it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
No, the point is that just because he says he's "supreme" doesn't mean he actually is. Since he's said it before even when it was clearly not the case.

i DO believe he was supreme, i'm just pointing out the flawed logic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So when taking out the Lt, etc. that doesn't back up the claim ?

I also believe mr. m has put up the interview stating he was supreme. It was the writer's intent.

I don't think any being is all knowing in the truest definition. I think maybe in their own realities they might get to the bottom of everything but against each other it comes down to who can beat the other. I think Thanos has the means to do so. I don't think the presence has the means to. That's how I have always looked at it. He was supreme within that reality. Lt probably had more power but we never actually saw the battle play out so we can't say for sure. With the hotu we saw how insignificant the Lt was against the hotu. There wasn't a question whether he was supreme or not after that stomp.

How? It makes him powerful, sure, but supreme? I dunno.

I'll have to have a look, then.

How do you think Thanos can do it? It's already been proven that his power wasn't usurped the last time.

Originally posted by -Pr-
How? It makes him powerful, sure, but supreme? I dunno.

I'll have to have a look, then.

How do you think Thanos can do it? It's already been proven that his power wasn't usurped the last time.

I think he absorbs his power like when Cronus did only he survives what Cronus couldn't comprehend. Thanos already survived it in marvel's the end.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Although I think Presence wins, Quan is (now at least) right about the whole Vertigo actions being non canon, seeing as in a recent interview on CBR Didio said that the Swamp Thing/Constantine in the mainstream DCU are seperate characters to their Vertigo counter parts, meaning that the events within the Vertgioverse are seperate to that of the main DCU.

Although tbf that could depend on scale, considering The Endless were shown to be multiversal (even in JLA before IC and the 52, Dream called the mainstream DCU a 'little universe'😉 and Lucifer created his own multiverse etc

It's still not completely clear, but on some level at least, events in Vertigoverse =/= Mainstream DCU

True, although we still have the statement of Lex contemplating about God (a nod to Vertigo) and what he might look like with Death of The Endless and she just smiled at him.

Originally posted by kevdude
True, although we still have the statement of Lex contemplating about God (a nod to Vertigo) and what he might look like with Death of The Endless and she just smiled at him.

Very true, that was a nice reference by Cornell I thought xD

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was supreme within that reality. Lt probably had more power but we never actually saw the battle play out so we can't say for sure. With the hotu we saw how insignificant the Lt was against the hotu. There wasn't a question whether he was supreme or not after that stomp.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Thanos never said "within this universe" he said he was supreme and believed it... as proven WRONG when warlock was positively astounded to find that LT was above him.

Warlock also kinda disagreed or doubted Lt was above him.

Originally posted by kevdude
True, although we still have the statement of Lex contemplating about God (a nod to Vertigo) and what he might look like with Death of The Endless and she just smiled at him.

Wasn't it stated that Presence exists in all dc realms?

Originally posted by quanchi112
We later find out it was within that universe which Lt backed up. We never saw who is more powerful the ig or Lt. I believe Lt was but it was never shown one way or the other.

Warlock also kinda disagreed or doubted Lt was above him.

Um, exactly my point... both users were totally clueless that the IG wasn't the strongest force in existence.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Very true, that was a nice reference by Cornell I thought xD

Hey, did you get my PM?

Originally posted by King Kandy
No, Thanos said he was supreme, period. He didn't "leave out" the "in this universe", he genuinely didn't know there were things above him.

Um, exactly my point... both users were totally clueless that the IG wasn't the strongest force in existence.

If Lt proved it then you'd have made a good case.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Wasn't it stated that Presence exists in all dc realms?

Yeah its been said many times, creation springs forth from Him and everything was made by Him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's never been proven Lt is superior to the ig though so in the end theoretically you don't have a point.

If Lt proved it then you'd have made a good case.

Originally posted by King Kandy
You're silly.

Originally posted by kevdude
Yeah its been said many times, creation springs forth from Him and everything was made by Him.

Thought so.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's never been proven Lt is superior to the ig though so in the end theoretically you don't have a point.

If Lt proved it then you'd have made a good case.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Actually yes it was proven.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When was it proven ?