CHARACTER RULING THREAD - Suggestions

Originally posted by Blight
I don't know if you understand what I meant, and it's a bit hard to explain.

Say Spiderman has a what-if where he bench presses the Baxter Building with ease. This means that ONLY in the what-if can he benchpress the Baxter building. But in that same What-If he doesn't have any on panel feats of a speed blitz. Can we use his prior history in comics to assume he's as fast as he is usually portrayed or not?

That's essentially what I was trying to explain.

To me it seems he's asking if we are using a What if version of a character, to the showings if the mainstream version prior to the What If count for his feats?

Originally posted by Badabing
Is this hypothetical or is there an instance you're talking about?

Originally posted by jalek moye
To me it seems he's asking if we are using a What if version of a character, to the showings if the mainstream version prior to the What If count for his feats?

Do we consider What If's canon here ?

Originally posted by Don Corleone
Do we consider What If's canon here ?

Originally posted by Blight
Korvac was the instance. People were arguing that Korvac couldn't do something because the What If didn't show that he did it or something to that effect. The argument was Divergent Timeline vs. Alternate Reality. I think someone said that a Divergent timeline means that the change only happened in that instance and that everything from then on couldn't be taken into account, but the stuff that precedes it would still technically be up for grabs.

Exactly.

In the recent Earth 2 comic, Bats, Supes and WW didn't show all their powers/gadgets, but I assumed they were the same as in the DCnU.

^ If I may make a suggestion, for the most part, What Ifs? almost always are preceded by Uatu or narration pointing at the exact divergence from 616. So, at least for What Ifs?, it should be easy to assume that each character involved has their feats up until the divergence.

Like that What If Dark Reign? began with the exact moment of divergence... where Ares realizes Norman is lying to him about the imminent Siege and Sentry comes in and kills him. 616 history and feats for all characters should be assumed in full right up until that point. Anything after, isn't.

Now some alternate reality stories don't lend themselves well to this because the point of divergence isn't entirely clear... like Earth X or Kingdom Come. But standard What Ifs? should be easy.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ If I may make a suggestion, for the most part, What Ifs? almost always are preceded by Uatu or narration pointing at the exact divergence from 616. So, at least for What Ifs?, it should be easy to assume that each character involved has their feats up until the divergence.

Like that What If Dark Reign? began with the exact moment of divergence... where Ares realizes Norman is lying to him about the imminent Siege and Sentry comes in and kills him. 616 history and feats for all characters should be assumed in full right up until that point. Anything after, isn't.

Now some alternate reality stories don't lend themselves well to this because the point of divergence isn't entirely clear... like Earth X or Kingdom Come. But standard What Ifs? should be easy.

Originally posted by Badabing
Personally, I've always assumed in What Ifs that characters retain their traits unless proved otherwise.

In the recent Earth 2 comic, Bats, Supes and WW didn't show all their powers/gadgets, but I assumed they were the same as in the DCnU.

Sounds like for the most part we are of one mind.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ If I may make a suggestion, for the most part, What Ifs? almost always are preceded by Uatu or narration pointing at the exact divergence from 616. So, at least for What Ifs?, it should be easy to assume that each character involved has their feats up until the divergence.

Like that What If Dark Reign? began with the exact moment of divergence... where Ares realizes Norman is lying to him about the imminent Siege and Sentry comes in and kills him. 616 history and feats for all characters should be assumed in full right up until that point. Anything after, isn't.

Now some alternate reality stories don't lend themselves well to this because the point of divergence isn't entirely clear... like Earth X or Kingdom Come. But standard What Ifs? should be easy.

👆

in all seriousness

this omnipotence and supremacy issue needs to be addressed.

You can't argue Presence is Supreme or Omnipotent if it's Spite when you put him in a ring no BFR with Cytorrak Galactus, Inbetweener, CK, and Abraxas. And too many people try to exploit this supreme argument.

Not really

You just dont put the presence in fights.

Bumping and pinning this, as I'm going to start hammering this out. Any new suggestions should be placed here, thanks.

might as well oblige whomever...sort of; the hulk issue isn't an issue, just step your intelligence game up and name the characters appropriately, or at least put more thought into the OP, please

Originally posted by psycho gundam
might as well oblige whomever...sort of; the hulk issue isn't an issue, just step your intelligence game up and name the characters appropriately, or at least put more thought into the OP, please

That's pretty much what we're going to start telling people to do. Kind of like the Sentry thing.

you at least have a case with sentry as he's quite ambiguous and you have enough feats to separate different "versions" of his power if you so choose to. i personally don't agree to a hard separation (pause).

Originally posted by psycho gundam
you at least have a case with sentry as he's quite ambiguous and you have enough feats to separate different "versions" of his power if you so choose to. i personally don't agree to a hard separation (pause).

It won't be as strict as the Sentry one, just in the same vein.

If you say WWH, using feats from HOTM should be kept to a minimum, otherwise, why not just use HOTM?

who's wwh? there in lies the issue

"green scar" is "world breaker", 'WWH" is the name of the arc. he had the same power right before planet hulk finished all the way till presumably now, though the writing is pretty weird in aaron's comics so far

Originally posted by psycho gundam
who's wwh? there in lies the issue

"green scar" is "world breaker", 'WWH" is the name of the arc. he had the same power right before planet hulk finished all the way till presumably now, though the writing is pretty weird in aaron's comics so far

So when someone writes WWH, what do you suggest we assume he is at power-level wise?

they mean "green scar/worldbreaker" mindset hulk, who is in synch with banner and in control of his rage. "wwh" was when he was bluffing, "HOTM" was when he was able to let it loose, however "WWH" had everything "HOTM" just curtailed, but if he needs to go there he can.

Originally posted by -Pr-
So when someone writes WWH, what do you suggest we assume he is at power-level wise?

Hulk is dynamic, that's the very core of the base character, there are definite splinter-characters that could not access dynamic strength, that had blocks and 'safeties' (get too mad and revert to Banner) etc., but the Hulk is basically Savage Hulk and his mainstream history up to the present, without tech or artifice.

"WWH" starts off with a Hulk that is already in control of his anger and rage, that has long been doing meditation and has the ability to instantly amp to exponentially greater powers (as demonstrated in the preceding arc where he went from having trouble with the aliens to holding the planet together). All the way through the arc, various characters (from Cho to Herc) all demonstrate that Hulk is holding back and unwilling to kill. So every fight was with the safety-on, because - as the arc explicitly stated - Hulk does not kill and he has no intentions of causing any fatalities.

At the end of WWH, we see him drained of all power, thus leading into the events of FOTH - NOT HOTM (not that you'd care much).

But ALL the way through Planet Hulk and WWH, we are told that he IS the WORLD BREAKER, that he was prophesied on Sakaar - his blood gives life etc et - and that if he wanted to he could destroy the world, literally.

And, just after he beats Sentry, we are given a taste of the kind of power he keeps locked up - when he takes a step that shakes the eastern seaboard.

So, if you want to box in a dynamic character, arbitrarily, then in WWH you have a "new character" (since apparently, he's not Hulk - I mean he doesn't share any history with Hulk, so what else but a new character?) who is apparently capable of easily breaking the world, who owned everybody and yet never unleashed fully and only once lost his temper, at which point he fought it back and with the help of satellites amped by the intelligencia he was drained and neutralised.