CHARACTER RULING THREAD - Suggestions

Originally posted by psycho gundam
they mean "green scar/worldbreaker" mindset hulk, who is in synch with banner and in control of his rage. "wwh" was when he was bluffing, "HOTM" was when he was able to let it loose, however "WWH" had everything "HOTM" just curtailed, but if he needs to go there he can.

So how would you classify it from here on out?

Originally posted by janus77
So would you say that Green Scar, during those events, was incapable of the feats that Savage Hulk did?

Hulk is dynamic, that's the very core of the base character, there are definite splinter-characters that could not access dynamic strength, that had blocks and 'safeties' (get too mad and revert to Banner) etc., but the Hulk is basically Savage Hulk and his mainstream history up to the present, without tech or artifice.

"WWH" starts off with a Hulk that is already in control of his anger and rage, that has long been doing meditation and has the ability to instantly amp to exponentially greater powers (as demonstrated in the preceding arc where he went from having trouble with the aliens to holding the planet together). All the way through the arc, various characters (from Cho to Herc) all demonstrate that Hulk is holding back and unwilling to kill. So every fight was with the safety-on, because - as the arc explicitly stated - Hulk does not kill and he has no intentions of causing any fatalities.

At the end of WWH, we see him drained of all power, thus leading into the events of FOTH - NOT HOTM (not that you'd care much).

But ALL the way through Planet Hulk and WWH, we are told that he IS the WORLD BREAKER, that he was prophesied on Sakaar - his blood gives life etc et - and that if he wanted to he could destroy the world, literally.

And, just after he beats Sentry, we are given a taste of the kind of power he keeps locked up - when he takes a step that shakes the eastern seaboard.

So, if you want to box in a dynamic character, arbitrarily, then in WWH you have a "new character" (since apparently, he's not Hulk - I mean he doesn't share any history with Hulk, so what else but a new character?) who is apparently capable of easily breaking the world, who owned everybody and yet never unleashed fully and only once lost his temper, at which point he fought it back and with the help of satellites amped by the intelligencia he was drained and neutralised.

If you're going to be so snarky, why do you think I'm even going to bother taking the time to address your post?

Originally posted by -Pr-
If you're going to be so snarky, why do you think I'm even going to bother taking the time to address your post?

Originally posted by janus77
What can I say, you invite a level of insincerity when you set a loaded question?

I asked an honest question that was neither loaded nor insinuating anything.

I'm actually extending an olive branch so we can nail this down, but I get bullshit in return.

But of course, us mods are all Anti-Hulk, aren't we?

Originally posted by -Pr-
So how would you classify it from here on out?

however, since you asked: imo, if the thread is labeled "WWH vs x", to me that says green scar, who also goes by "worldbreaker" (according to the prophecy) so that includes hulk in HOTM and vice versa as HOTM was a sequel due to the events in planet hulk

Originally posted by psycho gundam
it's not the what, but the whom. people have placed a misnomer on the character and it's hard to fix that. people just need to make themselves clearer in the OP *shrug*

That's what I'm asking you though; if you were writing an OP, how would you differentiate?

edited

Originally posted by -Pr-
So how would you classify it from here on out?

If you're going to be so snarky, why do you think I'm even going to bother taking the time to address your post?

Originally posted by -Pr-
I asked an honest question that was neither loaded nor insinuating anything.

I'm actually extending an olive branch so we can nail this down, but I get bullshit in return.

But of course, us mods are all Anti-Hulk, aren't we?

And again, you chose to read it as "ALL", whereas I chose to assert that many here, and in some seriously unhinged fashion, manifest their hostility towards a fictional character. This weighs down many - many - threads, but the one poster who is subjected to moderator attention is ... Not actually the one raving and ranting against anyone, merely goading them in return for their hostility towards him and a character he likes.

Meh, posters aside, just my two cents. Not here to argue, we've danced this dance a lot now, so if my post goads anyone into a rage, please just remember they're just words, about a fictional character lol.

Maybe this goes back to the whole 'fighting to the best of their ability' vs 'fighting in character'. Can Thor unleash the Godblast? Yes, he can. Does he do it in every fight? No, in character, he doesn't. Surfer doesn't go around tossing black holes in every fight, and MM doesn't really go intangible/use telepathy/superspeed/superstrength/invisible all at the same time.

Can WWH go into HOTM omni-blast mode? Sure, if you just look at powersets. He gets stronger the madder he gets, he's in a fight, he'll get madder until he reaches a level where he can outmuscle anyone in a forum match. But in character? It took a specific set of circumstances, imo, to get him to output those levels of power. He never reached those levels in a fight during the WWH story arc.

Now, some posters will say that is because the Hulk is always holding back, and I agree. Civilians were present etc etc. But just like Superman never goes all-out in his battles, and Thor never goes all out, I think, and this is just a suggestion, that unless its CISless WWH, he stays at the levels seen in the majority of the WWH story arc.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Frankly, what about that post was snarky? It seemed to make a lot of sense, to me.

Janus has been going on for a couple of days about how apparently, the mods/forum are so anti-Hulk.

In particular, I was talking about the "not that you'd care" part.

Originally posted by janus77
You got a pretty coherent answer, you just chose to focus on whatever "snariness" you saw there.

And again, you chose to read it as "ALL", whereas I chose to assert that many here, and in some seriously unhinged fashion, manifest their hostility towards a fictional character. This weighs down many - many - threads, but the one poster who is subjected to moderator attention is ... Not actually the one raving and ranting against anyone, merely goading them in return for their hostility towards him and a character he likes.

Your answer for the most part was fine. It was the tone that I had issue with.

lol, again with this imagined Hulk-hate.

Though do tell, what did I read as "all" exactly?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Meh, posters aside, just my two cents. Not here to argue, we've danced this dance a lot now, so if my post goads anyone into a rage, please just remember they're just words, about a fictional character lol.

Regarding using his powers to their maximum in every fight, if you look at the way the encounters are presented, the opponent is usually presented at their maximum displayed (and in many cases, merely implied) power output, then that is used as an argument for why Hulk would lose. This inevitably brings up the counter that, Hulk too can all upon far more than what he usually displays...

Further, you have the fact that during WWH arc, it was frequently stated that he was operating at those powers, but just pulling his punches. Which is why he was called "The World Breaker" throughout Planet Hulk and WWH. So, as to your contention that Hulk needed the circumstances to bring out that level of power. A forum fight would be free of the single (explicitly stated) inhibiting factor to his output - innocent civilians - so it would basically be him fighting with as much power output as he needs.

Another point, there's a sort of implicit assumption that he needs to bust planets, in order to defeat heralds, this is patently false and we've seen many many high heralds fall to far far less. So even if he doesn't have the luxury of unleashing, he still has the power to carry the fight until they tire or are knocked out.

Originally posted by janus77
Not looked at your posts, but there is a clique of, for want of a better word, anti-Hulk posters, who basically dislike both the character (and here, we're talking an unhealthy degree of animus for a fictional character) as well as a particular forummer. I'm not saying he's free from blame for a lot of the shit he receives, but it is quite a deliberate and unfair amount of shit and moreover, the same people then complain to a very receptive Mod, who also happens to be particularly keen on 'moderating' this forummer.

Regarding using his powers to their maximum in every fight, if you look at the way the encounters are presented, the opponent is usually presented at their maximum displayed (and in many cases, merely implied) power output, then that is used as an argument for why Hulk would lose. This inevitably brings up the counter that, Hulk too can all upon far more than what he usually displays...

Further, you have the fact that during WWH arc, it was frequently stated that he was operating at those powers, but just pulling his punches. Which is why he was called "The World Breaker" throughout Planet Hulk and WWH. So, as to your contention that Hulk needed the circumstances to bring out that level of power. A forum fight would be free of the single (explicitly stated) inhibiting factor to his output - innocent civilians - so it would basically be him fighting with as much power output as he needs.

Another point, there's a sort of implicit assumption that he needs to bust planets, in order to defeat heralds, this is patently false and we've seen many many high heralds fall to far far less. So even if he doesn't have the luxury of unleashing, he still has the power to carry the fight until they tire or are knocked out.

I see your POV, and can agree with it. I think this is all moot now, though - hasn't Bada ruled on it?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Janus has been going on for a couple of days about how apparently, the mods/forum are so anti-Hulk.

In particular, I was talking about the "not that you'd care" part.

Your answer for the most part was fine. It was the tone that I had issue with.

lol, again with this imagined Hulk-hate.

Though do tell, what did I read as "all" exactly?

Re the "not that you'd care", you're becoming a touch sensitive there, aren't you? I didn't misstate you nor misread your comment that HOTM starts from (an arbitrarily defined by you) point within WWH arc, where Banner unleashes a little too much power.

And indeed you are wrong, nothing "starts" from there, but FOTH does start from the end of WWH, then we get the execrable WWHulks and eventually Hulk returns and owns Rulk and then we move on to the events of Heart Of The Monster.

So, quite a lot of arcs in-between there, and again, not that you'd care, since you arbitrarily slice an arc to advance an erroneous position to placate an outcry from certain hostile forummers.

Originally posted by janus77
what you stated as "ALL", of course. It was your mistake and your continued misrepresentation, you should be the one to say where you read me stating that "ALL mods/posters here hate Hulk".

So how many are anti-Hulk, then?

And indeed you are wrong, nothing "starts" from there, but FOTH does start from the end of WWH, then we get the execrable WWHulks and eventually Hulk returns and owns Rulk and then we move on to the events of Heart Of The Monster.

I'm only going by what I'm told.

So, quite a lot of arcs in-between there, and again, not that you'd care, since you arbitrarily slice an arc to advance an erroneous position to placate an outcry from certain hostile forummers.

Not at all.

I was asking you guys to help to come to a consensus about it, not to toss accusations around.

Your assumption about anything being done arbitrarily is wayyy off base.

Originally posted by -Pr-
So how many are anti-Hulk, then?

If you can't find any instance of said accusation, I expect you'll do the decent thing and say so.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm only going by what I'm told.

Maybe ask them if they even read the comics that they argue so passionately - hostilely - against?

Originally posted by janus77
Before I answer you and name names (and thus get dragged into yet another *****-fest), why don't you answer the original question, where do I state that ALL mods/forummers are anti-Hulk?

If you can't find any instance of said accusation, I expect you'll do the decent thing and say so.

I never said all forum members, did I?

As far as mods, that seemed to be what you were getting at. If it's not true, then so be it, my bad.

See, I can do the decent thing. Your turn.

Janus, your misunderstanding is not Pr's problem. If I see you troll or antagonize another mod, or make blanket statements about mods, it will be a warning.

This is very simple. WWH feats happened in the World War Hulk arc. Planet Hulk/Green Scar feats happened in Planet Hulk & World War Hulk, since he was called Green Scar in both. WBH feats happened at the end World War Hulk and in Heart of the Monster.

As noted earlier:

WW3 Black Adam, Guardian amp Prime, HOTU Thanos, FC Darkseid, PG Drax, RKT, Day of Vengeance Captain Marvel, OWAW Superman, etc. are all from different story arcs. Most people use arcs in the OPs and thread titles to show what they want to debate or in posts to specify feats. It's a logical system with the smallest margin of error. If there's a general Hulk vs Superman or Hulk vs Thor thread, then people need to sort out for themselves which feats apply.

And:

Nobody is saying they are 2 different Hulks. Most likely WBH is the evolution of WWH. Regardless, they appeared in 2 specific story arcs, WWH and HOTM. You don't get to to say WWH fought a cyborg bear on a Russian space station or WBH lifted a mountain in Secret Wars, even though they are all Hulk. lulz

So let's sum this up, okay. When citing feats from World War Hulk, we don't use Planet Hulk feats. When citing feats from Heart of the Monster, we don't use Stay Angry feats. There is only one, green skinned, Banner Hulk who happens to have appeared in multiple arcs (go figure) with varying displays of power (ohno). If a thread specifies WWH, then we use WWH feats. If a thread says Green Scar Hulk, then it's Planet Hulk and WWH feats. If a thread just Says Hulk, then it's all fair game barring any current arcs which would negate using those feats.

Temporarily closed to save people from themselves.

04/07/2011 @ 3:57 pm EST:

Originally posted by -Pr-
All right, basically, Badabing and I are working on a "Character Ruling" thread, where certain characters will be better defined under the forum rules, and as such, should be easier to debate. It will serve to destroy misconceptions about certain characters, which can only help people.

Examples of this are things like defining Hulk's "base" level, and what "Full Confidence" Gladiator means, which Badabing and I have already decided on.

So this thread is for people to submit their own ideas. If it's a good enough idea and Badabing and I like it enough, it will end up in the thread, and will set the tone for the entire forum.

So yes, we're giving you fine people the chance to influence the forum itself. So please, post (reasonable) suggestions.

Originally posted by -Pr-
All right, I've decided to get back to this and finally finish it, now that I'm in Canada and so on, so I'll be reopening things to suggestions. With the DC reboot, there aren't going to be as many DC-centric rulings bar pre-reboot versions of characters. Anyway, any new suggestions you guys would like to bring up, post them here.

12/29/2012 @ 3:03 pm EST:

Originally posted by -Pr-
Just wrote paragraph after paragraph for the character ruling thread... 😖

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