Originally posted by Omega Vision
Lack of solid evidence that Odin can speed amp to those levels.
The Odin Force is basically like a Cosmic Cube (In it's applications). It's power can be channeled into doing or manipulating anything -relative to it's power level of course- whether it's creating a world or amping physical attributes.
I just think when you reach these types of power levels where their capabilities can be defined as "reality warping", I don't think you need to have everything spelled out on panel to assume something is within their capabilities. For me, Odin once turning a mortal boy into an Asgardian and giving him super speed with a casual zap is enough evidence. If Odin channeled more power, I have no doubt he can increase the levels dramatically but you do have somewhat of a point. It would be a no limit fallacy to an extent on my part.
Originally posted by King Kandy
I think we should ban all "god-analogues" (TOAA, presence, primal monitor, HOTU) from being used. I can't think of a single non-stupid discussion these characters have generated and they usually just boil down to flaming because people have no way to actually prove anything.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Or maybe just put a moratorium on Cosmic threads period.
Originally posted by Starscream MThats my argument on why a speedsteal should work on Odin. Just shut down his brain functions while he's in a body. Like I've posted in other areas I've yet to see anything that can stop a speed steal. I don't mean to no limits fallacy but there really isn't anything to compare speedforce speed steal to because the premise of the speed force is that it is essentially representative of all kinetic energy and should in theory be able to affect anything with matter. However I'll say that flash would lose or at best stalemate anyone with true intangibility.
well, technically, if you take speedforce at face value and assume Wally taps into it, wouldn't Odin be a relative statue to Wally? seconds could literally be years for a speedforce user
Originally posted by King Kandy
But that was the power of "true form" DS, and you ALREADY SAID that shouldn't be the default on this forum.
Yes, but some people including yourself, refuse to give him credit for it and insist it was the ALE. excellent
Originally posted by Starscream M
well, technically, if you take speedforce at face value and assume Wally taps into it, wouldn't Odin be a relative statue to Wally? seconds could literally be years for a speedforce user
If you want to get pissed at someone, blame DC for creating this monster. But yes, he is that fast. And yes, Odin cannot react to that level of speed. Even Darkseid can't react at that level.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Yes, but some people including yourself, refuse to give him credit for it and insist it was the ALE. excellent\
Somehow I doubt the mods are going to agree that this is a compelling interest of the forum to bind in law.
Guys, this thread is about common misconceptions on the forum, not individual feats. We're not going to be making a ruling for every character, and we're not going to pander to anyone starting trouble.
If we're talking about Darkseid's actual power level so he's not getting lowballed/overrated, then yes, that's probably something we can look at.
Nobody is saying that everyone becomes a statue when Wally uses the speed force (or any other Flash for that matter). People just have other ways of beating Flash.
Originally posted by Mindship
I think you guys have set for yourselves a Herculean task. It sounds almost like your trying to set specs for things that are often highly subjective. Eg, how often Superman can speedblitz an opponent, or what ten minutes of Batman prep means. And if you really try to quantify abilities, isn't that like what the role-playing games do: everything has a point value?Anyways, this has been my impression, reading the posts so far. I think you guys have a great idea, but I really don't know how you would execute it, at least not without citing some specifics.
That isn't what the thread is about. We're not going to dive in to every character, as i said. We're just putting some broad rules in place. We're not going to tell you by the feat what ones are and aren't used. This is more about how people are represented on the forum.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Also, I think we should rule "classic juggernaut". Since it seems many people think "Classic" means "only that one thor showing and nothing else".
differentiating between classic and current for some characters is a good idea, definitely.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Yes, but some people including yourself, refuse to give him credit for it and insist it was the ALE. excellentIf you want to get pissed at someone, blame DC for creating this monster. But yes, he is that fast. And yes, Odin cannot react to that level of speed. Even Darkseid can't react at that level.
Darkseid is barely Superman level.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestyes...I'll send in a hate letter to dc for creating a hero who can singehandedly beat villains such as superboy prime, doomsday, sinestro...oh wait 🙄
If you want to get pissed at someone, blame DC for creating this monster. But yes, he is that fast. And yes, Odin cannot react to that level of speed. Even Darkseid can't react at that level.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusThis is something I've wondered about: what are the limits for logically inferring what a character with an open powerset can do.
I just think when you reach these types of power levels where their capabilities can be defined as "reality warping", I don't think you need to have everything spelled out on panel to assume something is within their capabilities.
Originally posted by Mindship
This is something I've wondered about: what are the limits for logically inferring what a character with an open powerset can do.
Feats.
It's the difference between deciding what they can do, and what they WOULD do.
Debates are how the character would fight, not how we would have them fight. That's what tourneys are for.
Originally posted by Mindship
H'm. I like this.
It's the basis of the forum, and the CIP ruling. We're debating characters here, not powersets. Sure, I'd love to be able to say Superman blitzes Hulk from the outset and tears off his head (which I would do), but he wouldn't do that, so I can't say it.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, this thread is about common misconceptions on the forum, not individual feats. We're not going to be making a ruling for every character, and we're not going to pander to anyone starting trouble.If we're talking about Darkseid's actual power level so he's not getting lowballed/overrated, then yes, that's probably something we can look at.
Nobody is saying that everyone becomes a statue when Wally uses the speed force (or any other Flash for that matter). People just have other ways of beating Flash.
That isn't what the thread is about. We're not going to dive in to every character, as i said. We're just putting some broad rules in place. We're not going to tell you by the feat what ones are and aren't used. This is more about how people are represented on the forum.
differentiating between classic and current for some characters is a good idea, definitely.
Darkseid is barely Superman level.
I'm gonna let that one slide since you just told me you meant speed. DS being on Superman's level of speed is perfectly acceptable. He's blocked enough blitzes to merit it. 😄
Originally posted by -Pr-
Feats.It's the difference between deciding what they can do, and what they WOULD do.
Debates are how the character would fight, not how we would have them fight. That's what tourneys are for.
can you reconcile this with:
Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
the first seems to insinuate that because Flash doesn't blitz all his opponents at FTL, that we should consider that in a forum fight, where the second almost explicitly says that sort of "holding back" isn't relevant to the forum...