the whole idea that flash could freeze someone like, say, odin, is pretty ridiclous to me. it presupposes that flash's control over energy>odin's or whoever he is going against. i personally doubt he could steal ss's speed. were the battle in the dc universe, (where SF is recognized as being greater than.... pretty much everything else in dc apparently) i could see him doing a lot more of what everyone claims he can do, but, in a neutral universe where BOTH powersets are active at their peaks, there is no reason to suppose the SF would win out over other forms of manifested energies--ie, power cosmic, etc....
not sure exactly what level of energy control void has, but if he's a high level energy manipulator, and he has molecular control over his own body, i see no reason to believe he couldn't combat or eventually overcome flash's own control of kinetic energy, so long as this takes place in a neutral universe. 😬
Originally posted by leonidas
the whole idea that flash could freeze someone like, say, odin, is pretty ridiclous to me. it presupposes that flash's control over energy>odin's or whoever he is going against. i personally doubt he could steal ss's speed. were the battle in the dc universe, (where SF is recognized as being greater than.... pretty much everything else in dc apparently) i could see him doing a lot more of what everyone claims he can do, but, in a neutral universe where BOTH powersets are active at their peaks, there is no reason to suppose the SF would win out over other forms of manifested energies--ie, power cosmic, etc....not sure exactly what level of energy control void has, but if he's a high level energy manipulator, and he has molecular control over his own body, i see no reason to believe he couldn't combat or eventually overcome flash's own control of kinetic energy, so long as this takes place in a neutral universe. 😬
Hmm its like you are in my head. 👆.
Originally posted by SasuOna
If you are moving then you still have kinetic energy that being absent means that you can't do anything since you aren't building up any potential energy. Energy is never absent so whatever reasoning your trying to use to say that faux psionic energy is void of that is pretty dumb.Flash's have been turned into pure photons before and reformed thats the level of their energy manipulation.
I don't think anyone on this forum would say something stupid like KC Flash would lose to Void because he doesn't have a physical body(which isn't true).
It's not a real form of energy on the EM spectrum, we would be remiss to assume that it functions the same as existing forms of radiation. It's like arguing Flash could stop a telepathic assault by stealing the kinetic energy... a stretch.
Flash didn't turn into photons because of energy manipulation, he turned into energy because he was going so fast that the laws of physics did it for him. He made a 300 light year trip in the span of a few panels or some such jazz.
Originally posted by leonidas
the whole idea that flash could freeze someone like, say, odin, is pretty ridiclous to me. it presupposes that flash's control over energy>odin's or whoever he is going against. i personally doubt he could steal ss's speed. were the battle in the dc universe, (where SF is recognized as being greater than.... pretty much everything else in dc apparently) i could see him doing a lot more of what everyone claims he can do, but, in a neutral universe where BOTH powersets are active at their peaks, there is no reason to suppose the SF would win out over other forms of manifested energies--ie, power cosmic, etc....not sure exactly what level of energy control void has, but if he's a high level energy manipulator, and he has molecular control over his own body, i see no reason to believe he couldn't combat or eventually overcome flash's own control of kinetic energy, so long as this takes place in a neutral universe. 😬
Originally posted by Naija boy
Hmm its like you are in my head. 👆.
Originally posted by leonidasProblem is Speedforce is basically god over motion. If it moves the speedforce can make it not do so. PIS off CIS off there is no real defense for physical based characters to stop it.
the whole idea that flash could freeze someone like, say, odin, is pretty ridiclous to me. it presupposes that flash's control over energy>odin's or whoever he is going against. i personally doubt he could steal ss's speed. were the battle in the dc universe, (where SF is recognized as being greater than.... pretty much everything else in dc apparently) i could see him doing a lot more of what everyone claims he can do, but, in a neutral universe where BOTH powersets are active at their peaks, there is no reason to suppose the SF would win out over other forms of manifested energies--ie, power cosmic, etc....not sure exactly what level of energy control void has, but if he's a high level energy manipulator, and he has molecular control over his own body, i see no reason to believe he couldn't combat or eventually overcome flash's own control of kinetic energy, so long as this takes place in a neutral universe. 😬
Originally posted by Uriel005
Problem is Speedforce is basically god over motion. If it moves the speedforce can make it not do so. PIS off CIS off there is no real defense for physical based characters to stop it.
So, Flash > PC Validus, Galactus, COIE anti-monitor, etc. etc.
http://img131.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=d4b52_kahndc7.jpg#
Where does that put Black Adam?
Originally posted by Simbon.... First of all your problem off the bat is that is Jay. While a beast in his youth he is no longer in his hay-day. Two it's called comics. It's the reason why Superman hasn't punched Lex Luthor's head off. There would be no story if Flash utilized the capabilities of the speed force to the fullest extent. Here's how the story would read.
So, Flash > PC Validus, Galactus, COIE anti-monitor, etc. etc.http://img131.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=d4b52_kahndc7.jpg#
Where does that put Black Adam?
or for those not ridiculously powerful opponents that need a speed steal to be defeated
1) Villain comes
2)Flash Comes
3) IMP repeatedly to the head a trillion times in a second/Vibrates important body parts or circuits out of the body.
4) Villains head/body implodes
5) Day is saved.
However in a comic forum seeing as he fights to the best of his potential without going outside of morals he probably would abuse speed steal. It's a non-lethal method of stopping just about anything.
Originally posted by leonidas
the whole idea that flash could freeze someone like, say, odin, is pretty ridiclous to me. it presupposes that flash's control over energy>odin's or whoever he is going against. i personally doubt he could steal ss's speed. were the battle in the dc universe, (where SF is recognized as being greater than.... pretty much everything else in dc apparently) i could see him doing a lot more of what everyone claims he can do, but, in a neutral universe where BOTH powersets are active at their peaks, there is no reason to suppose the SF would win out over other forms of manifested energies--ie, power cosmic, etc....not sure exactly what level of energy control void has, but if he's a high level energy manipulator, and he has molecular control over his own body, i see no reason to believe he couldn't combat or eventually overcome flash's own control of kinetic energy, so long as this takes place in a neutral universe. 😬
Against someone like Void or Odin, sure, you could make that argument.
Against standard heralds, though, I see no reason why the Speed Force would be somehow lacking when it has to exist for Flashes to be able to use their powers in the first place.
Originally posted by -Pr-Honestly I don't think so at all. The speedforce for all intents and purposes is the ultimate authority on motion. I think it is the most broken force in the universe if a munchkin character were to tap it to it's fullest extent. Honestly I would love for someone to resist a speed steal but as of this point the Speedforce's ability to speedsteal has 0% chance of failure. I know that no-limits fallacy says that it needs a limit but as of yet I really haven't seen one that would be reasonable because looking at the speedforce in its entirety basically puts the speedforce at near abstract when kinetic energy is concerned. IMO this makes Flash have one of the greatest potentials to be completely and utterly broken in comics if he were to ever go all out on the universe.
Against someone like Void or Odin, sure, you could make that argument.Against standard heralds, though, I see no reason why the Speed Force would be somehow lacking when it has to exist for Flashes to be able to use their powers in the first place.
Originally posted by Uriel005
Honestly I don't think so at all. The speedforce for all intents and purposes is the ultimate authority on motion. I think it is the most broken force in the universe if a munchkin character were to tap it to it's fullest extent. Honestly I would love for someone to resist a speed steal but as of this point the Speedforce's ability to speedsteal has 0% chance of failure. I know that no-limits fallacy says that it needs a limit but as of yet I really haven't seen one that would be reasonable because looking at the speedforce in its entirety basically puts the speedforce at near abstract when kinetic energy is concerned. IMO this makes Flash have one of the greatest potentials to be completely and utterly broken in comics if he were to ever go all out on the universe.
Okay, so let's say we go down this route.
Do you think the Power Cosmic should be allowed completely, in every extension of it's power?
Originally posted by SamZED
But Void is not all that physical tbh. His tentacles were shown phasing though stuff and it was said that they attack one's soul rather than body. And once Bob's physical body is destroyed that black floating stuff is all that's left. That's pretty much what Void is made of..😕
Exactly Void is a Psionic entity bursting out via tentacles in the form of molecular reconstructing particles.
His ability to rip apart gods is part molecular reconstruction and part psionic overwhelming.
Ironman's use of the helicarrier as a bullet only served to shake Sentry into consciousness. Where he wished for death. Sentry aint doing that here.
It's really quite simple.
Void was born from Reynold's subconsciousness and is so much a master of such a domain that he manipulates the conscious realm as well.
Gods like Thor's, Loki's and Ares' particles are protected heavily by the Odinforce and Zeusforce energies. Doom marvelled at Asgardian physiologies and created a Destroyer armor out of Asgardian commoners lifeforces. Thor defeated him solely because Balder destroyed the armors power resources.
Void simply particlised and then tore Ares and Loki apart and we all know he would have to Thor as well if he wasn't distracted.
In a forum fight Void focuses and withers through everything Flash can offer. And ""ÏF"" tags him with his varied tentacles melts his organs like butter.
It's a Stalemate until Void unleashes tentacles everywhere like he did in Dark Avengers when he unleashed his tentacles on New York city.
