Originally posted by Tha C-MasterMxy Flash has no chance against. Imps aren't so much physical as they are ideas by how 3d beings understand them. MJJ still requires conscious thought to trigger his effects and no prep Flash would stop his thought process before he thought to give himself immunity to speed steal. It really is one of the most utterly broken abilities I've seen but based on how it works the potential retard level brokeness still stands.
I agree to an extent, of course once you get to a certain level it's just too much power. Mad Jim Jaspers or Mxy for example.
He truly is. 😖hifty:
Originally posted by Uriel005So you think he beats MJJ?
Mxy Flash has no chance against. Imps aren't so much physical as they are ideas by how 3d beings understand them. MJJ still requires conscious thought to trigger his effects and no prep Flash would stop his thought process before he thought to give himself immunity to speed steal. It really is one of the most utterly broken abilities I've seen but based on how it works the potential retard level brokeness still stands.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Against someone like Void or Odin, sure, you could make that argument.Against standard heralds, though, I see no reason why the Speed Force would be somehow lacking when it has to exist for Flashes to be able to use their powers in the first place.
PC needs to exist for ss to use HIS powers in the first place as well. 😬
and not 'lacking'. i think the SF COULD be used to rob characters of speed, neural activity, etc.... but, instead of it being 'an auto-win' like many seem to believe, i think flash should be required to prove his mastery of SF>the mastery of energy that his opponent has.
ie--could flash steal ss's speed? maybe. but it would require proof that flash is a greater energy manipulator than ss, like any other forum fight. he would be every bit as FAST in a forum fight, just that it would require proof of his energy manip to STEAL speed or use SF energy against someone. i simply don't think that SF should AUTOMATICALLY trump something like power cosmic in a forum fight (or the odinforce, or the power primoridal, or magic, or the quantum force of someone like quasar, or mar-vell's negaband energy, or the force of a gem, etc....) simply BECAUSE it is the speedforce. we've seen it doesn't even WORK in marvel. so to state that it can automatically override any of the various enrgies in marvel simply because it seems to do so in dc? meh, doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.
Originally posted by leonidasleo, do you not realize that 1 second can literally be weeks for Flash using speedforce?
PC needs to exist for ss to use HIS powers in the first place as well. 😬and not 'lacking'. i think the SF COULD be used to rob characters of speed, neural activity, etc.... but, instead of it being 'an auto-win' like many seem to believe, i think flash should be required to prove his mastery of SF>the mastery of energy that his opponent has.
ie--could flash steal ss's speed? maybe. but it would require proof that flash is a greater energy manipulator than ss, like any other forum fight. he would be every bit as FAST in a forum fight, just that it would require proof of his energy manip to STEAL speed or use SF energy against someone. i simply don't think that SF should AUTOMATICALLY trump something like power cosmic in a forum fight (or the odinforce, or the power primoridal, or magic, or the quantum force of someone like quasar, or mar-vell's negaband energy, or the force of a gem, etc....) simply BECAUSE it is the speedforce. we've seen it doesn't even WORK in marvel. so to state that it can automatically override any of the various enrgies in marvel simply because it seems to do so in dc? meh, doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.
Originally posted by Starscream M
leo, do you not realize that 1 second can literally be weeks for Flash using speedforce?
sure. same can be said for ss though. but your point has no bearing on whether he can steal ss's speed. relativity doesn't have a hand in that argument. only his ability to control SF energy does. ss is also an UBER energy manipulator. why should flash's SF control override ss's own energy control?
Originally posted by leonidas
PC needs to exist for ss to use HIS powers in the first place as well. 😬and not 'lacking'. i think the SF COULD be used to rob characters of speed, neural activity, etc.... but, instead of it being 'an auto-win' like many seem to believe, i think flash should be required to prove his mastery of SF>the mastery of energy that his opponent has.
ie--could flash steal ss's speed? maybe. but it would require proof that flash is a greater energy manipulator than ss, like any other forum fight. he would be every bit as FAST in a forum fight, just that it would require proof of his energy manip to STEAL speed or use SF energy against someone. i simply don't think that SF should AUTOMATICALLY trump something like power cosmic in a forum fight (or the odinforce, or the power primoridal, or magic, or the quantum force of someone like quasar, or mar-vell's negaband energy, or the force of a gem, etc....) simply BECAUSE it is the speedforce. we've seen it doesn't even WORK in marvel. so to state that it can automatically override any of the various enrgies in marvel simply because it seems to do so in dc? meh, doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.
that brings me to this, though:
Originally posted by -Pr-
Okay, so let's say we go down this route.Do you think the Power Cosmic should be allowed completely, in every extension of it's power?
Originally posted by Uriel005so scarlet witch and legion would go won? I find this absurd. their powers should shield them by themselves. people like molecule man, legion, sw and even the void have shown that their bodies are expressions of their powers, not the othe way arround.
still requires conscious thought which doesn't happen if he isn't free in his astral form and his neurons aren't doing anything.
Originally posted by 753I always took it like astral projection. Until you are actually projected you are dependent on the body.
so scarlet witch and legion would go won? I find this absurd. their powers should shield them by themselves. people like molecule man, legion, sw and even the void have shown that their bodies are expressions of their powers, not the othe way arround.
Originally posted by -Pr-
that brings me to this, though:
sure i think it should be allowed. like any power should be allowed. but, if flash wants to steal power, he needs to prove his level of manipulation like anyone else has to. he can IMP, attack at his nano-second speeds. i'm talking about purely his speed stealing powers. his actove use of SF offensively to override someone else's powers. if someone is a greater engery wielder, or more adept, i don't see why they couldn't simply combat flash's attempts at offensive SF use.
Originally posted by Starscream M
really? when has SS stretched a second into days or weeks? (ie, doing various things in a span of seconds aside from hyperspace travel)
anytime he uses ftl speeds it presupposes time is dilated. to perceive something moving at ftl speeds automatically assumes all relativistic effects. least imo. i've argued the same thing--successfully--in tournaments.
Originally posted by leonidasLeo I think where we are coming into conflict is how we see the speed force. I see it as it's own separate entity from the flash and on it's own separate from the Flash it is a skyfather-abstract entity when it comes to kinetic energy. Flash and other speedsters are just the consciousness that directs it more than anything else IMO. Again I say it's not really the Flash people are fighting against. It's the speedforce itself that they have to get around to defeat Flash and the Speedforce is absolute in power when it comes to kinetic energy. Kind of like Jakeem Thunder on a more specific capability.
anytime he uses ftl speeds it presupposes time is dilated. to perceive something moving at ftl speeds automatically assumes all relativistic effects. least imo. i've argued the same thing--successfully--in tournaments.