Actually, Nintendo's been pretty lax on providing 3DS games themselves. Perhaps that's because they've been focusing on developing the E3 demos for their new console?
And frankly, even with NDAs small tidbits of info get out. If any company had been working on a game for a brand new console from Nintendo, there would have been some sort of rumor by now.
Originally posted by BackFire
Releasing a system earlier than the competition doesn't necessarily equate to success. It can backfire in the long run. Remember the Dreamcast.That said if it is successful, and honestly it probably will be, at least to a certain extent, it could give Nintendo a dominating market ownership, with the Wii dominating on the "casual gaming" front, and this new one appealing to the "hardcore" crowd with pretty pictures and all that.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I don't see it dominating the "hardcore" market IF the graphics of this console would be the same or below par to the PS3's or 360's UNLESS they can introduce something innovative and/or provide better online services.
It's supposed to be significantly more powerful than the 360 and the PS3.
Originally posted by Mist_haermm
How do you even know 3rd parties are being shafted?
Because of this (I also made this point in my post).
Originally posted by General Kaliero
Because standard development time is at least 18 months these days, and on average far longer. If they're only just getting SDKs out to 3rd parties now, that's not much time at all to put a game together. And when that happens, developers tend to panic and either do sloppy/short proof-of-concept demos or quick conversions of existing games. And when that happens 3rd party games are panned at release, attaching a stigma to the console so that, yet again for Nintendo, the console has little 3rd party support.A worst case scenario of course, but still. Such a short development window isn't a good idea.
It's like Nintendo really doesn't give a flying fudge because the know their titles will sell like mad. I can't blame them. I said it earlier, but I think Nintendo knows that they'll have their market for about 2 years so they don't really care, at this point.
Originally posted by Mist_haermm
Yes but that's assuming they're only just releasing the SDKs now. Everyone who has a SDK has NDAs in place, they won't be announcing anything until E3 at the earliest, and if Nintendo are giving playable build demos at E3, then it's fair to say they've been in development for a while. I doubt Nintendo will be leading the launch since they're busy pimping the 3DS and still releasing Wii games in that time.
They just released the press release about he console (that's supposed to get investors and third parties excited). They haven't even released their SDK OR their hardware specs. In other words, there will be LESS than a year for third parties to develop for this. There's no speculation, there: Nintendo is clearly shafting third parties in the initial launch.
Originally posted by Mist_haermm
If the specs are above the current gen systems, then there's no reason why current engines like Unreal shouldn't work on it, so all Nintendo had to do was say 'it supports Unreal' 2 years ago and you'll have a bunch of 3rd party games in development without even needing an SDK until now. It's completely different to when the Wii was coming out, since dev's would have had to have a SDK to work on the motion controls.
Sort of... If the hardware operates in a new or different way (which it will), there's still making the game to fit the new technology which can cause a software development backlog that greatly impacts the launch date by, sometimes, much greater than 6 months. That would push their software release waaaaaay out there past launch.
Worst case scenario, it will allow for backwards compatibility and they can program for that (Wii), throw in the 'new' hardware features after they find out what those are, as just an afterthought, and release the game at launch.......kind of like what developers did with the Wii. 😆
Originally posted by Mist_haermm
Anyway, all speculation til it launches I guess.
Again, sort of. There are some clear facts that can be derived. Third parties will have less than a year to develop something if they want it at launch. Nintendo has anywhere from a year to 2 years of a "free market" on the nexgen console wars, Nintendo just released their press release but not SDK and hardware specs inferring that they would rather hit the market with a large first party install base, and Nintendo is wanting to keep things under wraps until E3.
Edit - I just read Ushgarak's post about SDKs. This is news to me. Third parties have had SDKs for months? Maybe Nintendo isn't trying to shaft third parties as much as I thought.
Originally posted by dadudemon
This.The console announcement and "specs' offerings for game developers MUST happen in order for the developers to develop a game that fits the hardware API of the new system.
In other words, Nintendo MUST have a definitive system (hardware specs) and API so that a SDK can be given or at least developers have an idea on what to build for.
What does all of that mean? Console manufacturers must project out significantly greater than a year-out for the developers. In order to claim that only a year or year and a half is away for the MS console or the Sony console, they must also release an SDK and/or hardware specs in order to even traverse the API to have working software on the system.
There is literally no precedence to back up the claim that any console manufacturer is going to have a console go from unannounced to market in less than 18 months (that's being generous.) IMO, Nintendo announcing a release date for second quarter 2012 is STILL pushing it. They had better have a good reason for shafting third parties so thoroughly. Oh, wait, they do: Nintendo is the #1 first party software developer in video games (by sales.) lol
Jargon:
SDK - Sofware Development Kit. Not necessary to develop software but it is almost a must in for console manufacturers to provide.
API - Application programming interface. You literally cannot write a program without API. Even if they use a programming language that is very common (Java), they still have to provide API that is specific to their console...otherwise, there is LOTS of guesswork involved and it will have to be modified (which takes time and testing) to get it to work.
Hardware Specs - This one is more obvious than the other two but I feel it needs clarification. In order to program something that both looks good AND does not have frame-rate lag, you must know the hardware specs and the technologies they are capable of (for instance, there are some rendering technologies that are available in the PS3 that are not in the 360. Some software companies make use of those differences, some do not.)
Anyway, srankmissingnin, I hope that clears up the "why" for release dates. Unless MS or Sony make an announcement of a soon-to-be released SDK and API for their nexgen consoles, there's no way they can be in the same range as Nintendo. Again, Nintendo can pull off a one-year release date because they have such a massive first-party development team to keep things "under-wraps." My thoughts on that:
Nintendo is doing that because they do not have to worry about nexgen console competition. They can release a new console with little software install base and let the market fill in their library for 2 years with little competition in their market. (Seems odd that I would give a separate market, doesn't? That's just how it works. The sales will not, initially, eat into the other systems and software sales .It will be it's own market. Observe the 360s life when it had the market to itself.)
My prediction was that if Nintendo released a new console, Sony and Microsoft would respond and have something on the shelves within a year of it. Nintendo's console is at least a year away, and a mid - late 2012 (possibly even early 2013 in some regions) Nintendo release as the earliest possible window would give Sony and Microsoft a 2013-2014 launch window for their return fire. That is more than two years from now, more than enough time to get development kits to the third party studios and have some crappy third party launch games ready, especially if the architecture is similar to current consoles.
Nintendo is officially going to announce a new console this year at E3, that is certain. I expect Sony and Microsoft will throw up a PS4/XBOX720 logo to steal some thunder, and make announce officially announcement no later than E3 2012.
What I wanted know is what Microsoft's plans are. They've said no Blueray, and with ISP's trying to cap bandwidth to absurdly low levels surely digital distribution isn't an option for dl'ing next gen games? DVDs again?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
My prediction was that if Nintendo released a new console, Sony and Microsoft would respond and have something on the shelves within a year of it. Nintendo's console is at least a year away, and a mid - late 2012 (possibly even early 2013 in some regions) Nintendo release as the earliest possible window would give Sony and Microsoft a 2013-2014 launch window for their return fire. That is more than two years from now, more than enough time to get development kits to the third party studios and have some crappy third party launch games ready, especially if the architecture is similar to current consoles.Nintendo is officially going to announce a new console this year at E3, that is certain. I expect Sony and Microsoft will throw up a PS4/XBOX720 logo to steal some thunder, and make announce officially announcement no later than E3 2012.
What I wanted know is what Microsoft's plans are. They've said no Blueray, and with ISP's trying to cap bandwidth to absurdly low levels surely digital distribution isn't an option for dl'ing next gen games? DVDs again?
That all sound reasonable and fair.
MS could easily go the way of a Steam system. That would really cut into piracy, too. It's the way it should be going, anyway.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
My prediction was that if Nintendo released a new console, Sony and Microsoft would respond and have something on the shelves within a year of it. Nintendo's console is at least a year away, and a mid - late 2012 (possibly even early 2013 in some regions) Nintendo release as the earliest possible window would give Sony and Microsoft a 2013-2014 launch window for their return fire. That is more than two years from now, more than enough time to get development kits to the third party studios and have some crappy third party launch games ready, especially if the architecture is similar to current consoles.Nintendo is officially going to announce a new console this year at E3, that is certain. I expect Sony and Microsoft will throw up a PS4/XBOX720 logo to steal some thunder, and make announce officially announcement no later than E3 2012.
What I wanted know is what Microsoft's plans are. They've said no Blueray, and with ISP's trying to cap bandwidth to absurdly low levels surely digital distribution isn't an option for dl'ing next gen games? DVDs again?
Except for the fact that unless Sony and Microsoft have a new console that they're working on now and have a significant amount of work done on, they won't have anything to push up to be ready within a year of Nintendo's release. It's not like a game where things can be time-crunched fairly easily; console development is a whole different thing there.
And yes, they'll probably stick with DVDs unless they go with a download-based distribution for games (which I hope they don't). People seem to forget how great compression technology can be when utilized properly.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Nintendo just released their press release but not SDK and hardware specs inferring that they would rather hit the market with a large first party install base, and Nintendo is wanting to keep things under wraps until E3.Edit - I just read Ushgarak's post about SDKs. This is news to me. Third parties have had SDKs for months? Maybe Nintendo isn't trying to shaft third parties as much as I thought.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, the sources providing information have so far been reliable, and these same sources said that the major companies have had SDKs for months.
See, that's what I'm saying...press release doesn't mean anything in terms of SDK releases.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What I wanted know is what Microsoft's plans are. They've said no Blueray
MS should just suck it up and use blu ray already...
[edit]actually weren't next gen aiming for cloud gaming, or was that a completely different system?
Rumors have been updated...sort of:
- Retro Studios is not working on Eternal darkness 2 or Zelda
- Rareware and Nintendo have have had discussions of working on the 3DS
- the idea of working on a revamp of StarFox Adventures was discussed, but seems to have been shelved
- Banjo-Kazooie on 3DS is not out of the question
- much like Viva Pinata on DS, Microsoft thinks that brand extensions on DS could help them sell games on 360
- multiple third parties are working on ports of 360/PS3 games for Project Cafe, with one third party in particular porting a bunch of content
- Nintendo may consider letting the Metroid series cool for awhile after support for the franchise seems to be waning
- Nintendo thinks the Earthbound series makes more sense on portables, but that doesn't confirm anything in the works
- system is once again, more powerful than 360/PS3/
http://gameolosophy.com/consoles/rumor-rareware-on-3ds-future-of-metroid/
"Ports galore of PS3/360 games for Project Cafe’s launch. One third party in particular is planning to shamelessly milk the new Nintendo console with lots of PS3/360 ports. Nintendo told developers how easy it is to port games from 360 to the new Nintendo console. Unfortunately, third parties think that is giving them the greenlight to throw all of their 360/PS3 projects onto the new console instead of making brand new projects that take advantage of Project Cafe’s extra power.
"
How disappointing.
Originally posted by Peach
Except for the fact that unless Sony and Microsoft have a new console that they're working on now and have a significant amount of work done on, they won't have anything to push up to be ready within a year of Nintendo's release. It's not like a game where things can be time-crunched fairly easily; console development is a whole different thing there.And yes, they'll probably stick with DVDs unless they go with a download-based distribution for games (which I hope they don't). People seem to forget how great compression technology can be when utilized properly.
What do you think Sony and Microsoft have been doing for the last five - six years? Standing around twiddling their thumbs? They almost certainly started R&D for their next consoles the moment the 360 and PS3 launched, if not earlier.
Originally posted by Mist_haermm
See, that's what I'm saying...press release doesn't mean anything in terms of SDK releases.MS should just suck it up and use blu ray already...
[edit]actually weren't next gen aiming for cloud gaming, or was that a completely different system?
I too hope they just go for BR already (both M$ and Nintendo)
while compression still works and not all game need it, some game actually benefit from the format, and they don't have to compress just about everything (especially those with cutscene as they get artifacts all over the place because of it)
... but wasn't M$ working in a new format? I heard they were gonna start a Beta program soon...
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What do you think Sony and Microsoft have been doing for the last five - six years? Standing around twiddling their thumbs? They almost certainly started R&D for their next consoles the moment the 360 and PS3 launched, if not earlier.
Originally posted by General Kaliero
Maintaining their online networks, testing and fixing broken units, working with developers and Quality Assurance to design and implement progressive firmware updates, designing and manufacturing new iterations of the current consoles for new price points, marketing their consoles, developing Kinect and Move, marketing Kinect and Move, developing and implementing firmware updates for Kinect and Move... that's probably most of what they've been doing for five - six years.
Marketing, product testing, IT, PR and R&D are all completely separate entities with in a corporation. Sony had already started development on the PS3 before the official lunch of the PS2 and it's not like the laid off their R&D department when the PS3 was lunched or Move development was keeping the whole department busy for five years.
Do you have a source for Sony starting development on the PS3 before 2000?
Who do you think develops all those firmware upgrades? Why, R&D of course. How do they know what their goals are? Working with the network coordinators and public relations to determine the problems that need fixing. The network jobs are obviously constant, since you never know when a bug will pop up or what will cause it. And public relations need to be gathering information to feed to development so they know when something needs fixing and what it is. These teams don't have just one job, and the work on a console doesn't end at launch. After launch the jobs for everyone in the console division of the company shift from creation to refinement and maintenance.