which one of these DC/Marvel characters is the toughest mentally?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I agree. Punisher even killed his own wife and son.

What? I mean wasn't him becoming the ****ing Punisher was to fight injustice, to protect the weak from the powerful. If he's the one that killed his Wife and Son, then what's the ****ing point of being the ****ing Punisher.

Marvel has literally **** up a good character with that shit.

**** YOU MARVEL, **** YOU. 😒

They were magically rezed by the Hood with insidious methods and intend... so Frank torched them.

Punisher needs to kill. His a psychopathic murdering machine that was unleashing in Vietnam. His family dying was just an excuse; something else would have set him up.

That's what I remember from the most recent takes.

Punisher has a strong drive, but he doesn't win here.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Punisher needs to kill. His a psychopathic murdering machine that was unleashing in Vietnam. His family dying was just an excuse; something else would have set him up.

That's what I remember from the most recent takes.

Punisher has a strong drive, but he doesn't win here.

That's Max Punisher.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Punisher needs to kill. His a psychopathic murdering machine that was unleashing in Vietnam. His family dying was just an excuse; something else would have set him up.

That's what I remember from the most recent takes.

Punisher has a strong drive, but he doesn't win here.

Originally posted by Uriel005
I just think that his pathological psychosis plays a big factor in his single minded drive to accomplish the mission more than anything else. It's also why I put batman under superman. He is clinically insane in his obsession for control over both himself and his environment.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
That's Max Punisher.

So was his story retcon, or is Max Punisher an alternate version, like one of Marvel's What If stories.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
That's Max Punisher.

Point.

Max Punisher = Best Punisher.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Point.

Max Punisher = Best Punisher.

True.

Originally posted by Uriel005
thats my point when it comes to Batman and Punisher mental illnesses do not count towards mental toughness. Putting a masochist under torture does not mean he or she has a lot of willpower.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Superman deserves honorable mention, if nothing else but for being so principled that he wouldn't kill a scumbag like Manchester Black even when he thought he'd just murdered Lois.

There's a lot of shit on this forum about heroes who don't kill being 'pussies', 'hypocrites', 'naive', or 'idiotic', but sometimes it takes so much more spiritual certainty and fortitude NOT to kill someone.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Can you really say that the Punisher has willpower and mental toughness. I feel it comes more from his controlled psychosis more than anything else. Willpower is determination AND self-control which the punisher generally lacks. He has a few things he sticks to but if the chips are down they are still negotiable depending on the cost. Batman Superman Hal and Cap are better choices IMO but I'd have to put Superman at the top. Not because of what he does but more because of what he doesn't do. With his abilities and smarts to build things like the miracle machine or just generally manage things on top of his physical stats his issue becomes more of one Not to take action where he could. He could solve all the worlds problems hell he could conquer the earth and make it a utopia with relative ease and at his best there is little that could have stopped him back in the silver age at his absolute peak.

At his best he has laughed at Darkseid and the strongest beings in the universe best shots against him. Gods have fallen broken before him and despite all his power and the will to do good he does not simply take things into his own hands and arbitrarily pass judgement. Consider that at Supermans absolute peak that even a peak Dr. Fate is little more than laughable despite Supermans magic vulnerability as well as times when Kryptonite acts more like slow radiation poisoning that is incredibly painful but otherwise manageable. This makes him all the more mentally strong in my book.

Originally posted by 753
hasnt he also lost it completely in other occasions when believing lois was dead or that he himself had killed innocents?

When Black made him believe he'd killed Lois, Superman didn't lash out.

However, when Max Lord got inside his head, he was more forcing him to watch things being replayed over and over, which made him feel the grief over and over (and he still fought that mental control at the same time).

It can vary, but more often than not Superman keeps his principles intact.

Then there's his resistance/perseverance feats.

Originally posted by 753
but they're not masochists and while you may label them insane, it does not take away from their drive and will

Since when are will power and mentally tough the same thing?

Originally posted by Uriel005
The point wasn't that they are masochists. The point is that their will is derived from mental illness. Obsession is a mental illness and it has been cited in Batman and Punisher time and again. They are not driven to do the things that they do there is an actual psychological disorder pushing them to do it it my point. There is something broken in their heads that lets them do what they do.

Here's a question though: Could they *hold back* for awhile if they had to as easily as they can press on?

Remember in Bruce Wayne: Murderer when he went to jail, he went 'Batman' on three inmates out of pure frustration, even though it hurt his situation, and eventually just broke out. Going Batman in Murderer/Fugitive wasn't willpower, it was retreating.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think Punisher has astounding self control, infact I would go as far to see that few characters posses the same level of self control as Frank Castle. What you need to keep in mind is that Frank doesn't kill criminals because he lacks impulse control or because he has a pathological compulsion that requires him to kill or hurt people, he does it because he believes with the entity of his being that it is necessary. He is often depicted as being opposed to the consumption of alcohol and drugs (even ones as menial as pain killers), sometimes he even comes off as A-sexual like Judge Dredd with a complete disinterest in sex (or anything outside of his mission really). He is practically a monk... a monk that violently kills people. No ones perfect.

He does not kill criminals because it is necessary but because they are a convenient target.

In a weird sick way losing his wife and children set him free to do what he has always wanted to do fight a never ending war.

If you where to give Punisher the choice between having his family back or go on killing forever he would take option two.

I want to say Wonder Woman because she makes very very very few mistakes when put under pressure. She's also pressed through one of Circe's mystical barriers that incinerated her flesh completely and she was just a skeleton reaching through and still managing to grab Circe by the throat. I would disqualify characters like Daredevil because although he goes through a lot and remains functioning as a superhero, he often times lets his troubles and conflicts get in the way of his job.

My opinion is Batman or superman

Originally posted by godking
Bullshit punisher kills because that has been the only thing that he has ever been good at.

He does not kill criminals because it is necessary but because they are a convenient target.

In a weird sick way losing his wife and children set him free to do what he has always wanted to do fight a never ending war.

If you where to give Punisher the choice between having his family back or go on killing forever he would take option two.