I said it before but I guess I'll say it again in here just to get my two cents in 😛
I think there are feats, which are needed, but an understanding of characters as well. With a good balance between the two.
To kind of make my point I'm going to use three different character with three different levels of speed. Thor, Superman, Hulk. Each one will demonstrate a different aspect I want to convey. I will save Thor for the last because he will tie it up real nicely.
First off I'm gonna go with the Hulk. In his long storied history his level of speed has been pretty well defined. He is not a speedster by any stretch of the imagination and he will always be depicted as such. Yeah he has been able to run fast but we've always seen it stated as what it is. Basically marginally superhuman and his reflexes have always been the same. He has no feats and its not in his characterization to have them either plus he would use it if he could because is just that limited in his powerset. So I would not attribute him has having anything close to the speed needed to take on the Flash.
Superman now on the other hand. He has feats upon feats to show why he has amazing speed. His characterization is such that he holds back but he is a brawler as well. He is more limited in how he can handle situations so he won't always use his speed but when things aren't going his way he is more liable to use it when he needs to because his options are more limited then say a Silver Surfer.
Now for Thor. He does not have as many speed feats as Superman but he does have more than the Hulk. They just happen to be far more spread out. But his feats can speak for themselves. He has microsecond reaction feats. He has dealt with speedsters before. His trench digging feat. His running through the park feat, his bullet /dart stopping feat. Even recently he was able to take down Quicksilver with ease and have QS at his mercy. He also recently appeared to appear directly infront of a fleeing kid loki. He also has senses that are far beyond simple meta/street level ability.
He has feats but his characterization is a little different then Superman. Like Superman he holds back but unlike Superman who is a brawler Thor has more exotic and more Thor like way of dealing with a situation that doesn't allow him to have to depend on using blinding speed. So there will be a natural slant in the number of feats Thor will have compared to Superman cause Thor has more outs and more outs that seem in character for him. So Superman more likely to use speed, Thor more likely to bust out the godly powers but they have both used superspeed at a very high level when need be.
So based on everthing above I would ranks these characters as such.
Superman's Speed >> Thor's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hulk's.
That's my line of thinking here.
Superman will always have the superior feats to Thor cause he needs it more than Thor does and its more in character for him to do so. But they are both obviously greater than Hulk based on feats.
That's what I feel to be the best balance when determining things like speed.
Originally posted by long pig
How is SM faster than Masterson Thor? The guy saw a guy shoot aa someone 50feet away so he tracked the bullet and intercepted the it. One of the best bullet time feats i've seen.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3176/strike1.jpg
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8158/strike2d.jpg
Is that the scene?
It's a decent one. Eric used his mace but he no doubt tracked the bullet. It should be noted his mace was a poor mans version of Mjolnir. He simply tosses it and hangs on for dear life as he use to say. He couldn't even change his speed I believe.
And this was wasn't Masterson Thor, this is his downgraded Thunderstrike incarnation.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
More or less equal in terms speed but Thor's would require coordination as well, so his would have a slight edge I would think.
Thor has about two more similar feats where he snatches a tank shell and later on a missile out of the air.
Do you still take the stance that Thor is peak human at best?
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
That, the fact thee group of them, they all trained to take out meta humans. The fact he pretty mych vanished before there eyes and ended up behind them. And to top it off he cutt there weapons with out them knowing.Not to say your feats are not good, but I truelly think the one I posted is on another level.
They are still human, no? I understand why it'd be more impressive than Thor throwing a single blow but based on what I posted, and Thor's trench feat, he can operate at those levels. It'll just never happen in a running time sequence. Worst case scenario like I said, is that he can tag Logan with his blows if he moves at faster-than-tracking levels.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Not just the larger distance, but the fact that Wolverine is moving his entire body at that speed and not just striking with a single arm.
The same thing I said to BH.
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
It could be used as proof, but why, he already been establish as so.I can't believe the amount of people who still dont get that he not human. Look at his rogue there all clear cut superhuman. He also fought all of spiderman rogue and match them easily in speed.
Man a lot less people on kmc read wolverine then I thought.
How can it be used as proof....when you haven't proven that the feet requires beyond human speed?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He was surround by four men and took them all out simultaneously before any of them could react, with four separate attacks, one for each individual.
No, he took them out fast enough to leave after-images....leaving after-images is something both NW and DD have done.
Originally posted by Tha C-MasterMaybe not 90% and I think percent is a bad way to describe it.
So you think Thor is about 90% of Superman's speed?I'm trying to get an ideal of what your percentage is.
Let's jsut say if Superman and Thor were going all out.
Superman's speed dial would be at an 11 or 12.
Thor's would be at a 9.
Superman is obviously better but I think Thor can deal with it. Which has always been my stance.
Edit:
Ok I think I demonstrated the level of difference when I wrote my Superman vs Thor battle in the rain. When Superman was going full speed the rain stopped completely when Thor did it the rain became a slow slow crawl to demonstrate the difference I feel in their senses but that Thor could still react and comprehend Superman as an object.
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I have been saying for years that elektra and capt are superhuman. So dont give me that suit me crap. If you want ask srank for verification.
Not at all. Honestly maybe you should stop assuming so much about wolverine actual pick up a comic. Because your 100% wrong.
Her feats arnt better then his. She can even touch some of his speed blizt. You sadly mistaken. Oh and you would say that crap. It was made perfectly clear that she is human. she appears meta becuase she can due everything at peak level at once. She not faster at al. And it been made very clear that she is phsyically inferior to DS who is not superior to wolverine in the least.
He been there done it. Let me know what batgirl dodge a tank shell from a foot away, or gets even haft wolverine blizitng feats.
facepalm nobody is saying she isnt a peak human. were sayign logan has nothing that puts him beyond peak humans in the reaction speed departament.
Oh and how about you let the context come out. Yea notic eyou did not mention the fact that the issue in which she does that bullet dodge feat states he stats are human after analyzing them. So her best feat completely contradicts it self and the author trumps artist every time.
yeah, you just cant understand what is in the pretty pictures and then talk out of your ass when half the forum shows you that peak humans can match or exceed all of logan's supposedly superhuman reaction feats.
Oh by the way I own almost all her comic. Yea I unlike some I know actaully reads all the character I debate intead of make absurd unfounded claims like some I know 🙄 [/B]
Originally posted by Newjak
Maybe not 90% and I think percent is a bad way to describe it.Let's jsut say if Superman and Thor were going all out.
Superman's speed dial would be at an 11 or 12.
Thor's would be at a 9.
Superman is obviously better but I think Thor can deal with it. Which has always been my stance.
Edit:
Ok I think I demonstrated the level of difference when I wrote my Superman vs Thor battle in the rain. When Superman was going full speed the rain stopped completely when Thor did it the rain became a slow slow crawl to demonstrate the difference I feel in their senses but that Thor could still react and comprehend Superman as an object.
😂
Originally posted by Newjakhulk's reaction feats are very bit as good as thor's and while they can both react with superhuman speed and calculate trajectories etc very well, neither of them are speedsters. superman is above them both in reaction and general motion/flight speed. he is a true speedster.
I said it before but I guess I'll say it again in here just to get my two cents in 😛I think there are feats, which are needed, but an understanding of characters as well. With a good balance between the two.
To kind of make my point I'm going to use three different character with three different levels of speed. Thor, Superman, Hulk. Each one will demonstrate a different aspect I want to convey. I will save Thor for the last because he will tie it up real nicely.
First off I'm gonna go with the Hulk. In his long storied history his level of speed has been pretty well defined. He is not a speedster by any stretch of the imagination and he will always be depicted as such. Yeah he has been able to run fast but we've always seen it stated as what it is. Basically marginally superhuman and his reflexes have always been the same. He has no feats and its not in his characterization to have them either plus he would use it if he could because is just that limited in his powerset. So I would not attribute him has having anything close to the speed needed to take on the Flash.
Superman now on the other hand. He has feats upon feats to show why he has amazing speed. His characterization is such that he holds back but he is a brawler as well. He is more limited in how he can handle situations so he won't always use his speed but when things aren't going his way he is more liable to use it when he needs to because his options are more limited then say a Silver Surfer.
Now for Thor. He does not have as many speed feats as Superman but he does have more than the Hulk. They just happen to be far more spread out. But his feats can speak for themselves. He has microsecond reaction feats. He has dealt with speedsters before. His trench digging feat. His running through the park feat, his bullet /dart stopping feat. Even recently he was able to take down Quicksilver with ease and have QS at his mercy. He also recently appeared to appear directly infront of a fleeing kid loki. He also has senses that are far beyond simple meta/street level ability.
He has feats but his characterization is a little different then Superman. Like Superman he holds back but unlike Superman who is a brawler Thor has more exotic and more Thor like way of dealing with a situation that doesn't allow him to have to depend on using blinding speed. So there will be a natural slant in the number of feats Thor will have compared to Superman cause Thor has more outs and more outs that seem in character for him. So Superman more likely to use speed, Thor more likely to bust out the godly powers but they have both used superspeed at a very high level when need be.
So based on everthing above I would ranks these characters as such.
Superman's Speed >> Thor's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hulk's.
That's my line of thinking here.
Superman will always have the superior feats to Thor cause he needs it more than Thor does and its more in character for him to do so. But they are both obviously greater than Hulk based on feats.
That's what I feel to be the best balance when determining things like speed.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusPeople I feel take what's on paper too literally. You have to have some benefit of a doubt otherwise you just get two extremes going at eachother.
On paper, the difference between Clark and Thor is huge. In practice? I think JLA/Avengers illustrated what I'd expect for the most part.
Like oh my god exactly what has happened in here.
