ugh, I can't believe I'm doing this... but whatever... so, cracked did a good article on the 911 conspiracy theories where they tried to estimate how much it would cost, and how many people would generally either have to be wilfully ignorant or specifically evil, to have actually covered up the plot. I'm inspired to try the same here...
I Don't Even Get it From the Start
I don't understand the issue. Or, to be specific, if the theory is true, and Obama is, say, Kenyan, what does this mean... Aside from like, tribalism, I don't understand. The “nationality” thing, though I wouldn't simplify it completely this way, is probably a sense of xenophobia, but ultimately, imho, aside from the clerical check of qualifications, him not being an American citizen really says nothing at all. It seems so absurd, “Is the President of the United States an American?” Salon has posted some articles that talk about how it is likely that people are attracted to the meme because it says “he's different”, rather than any sort of factual accuracy, so I'm sure some of it is that, but still, there is a fairly insistent group who think that Obama's foreign identity is evidence of... something...
Which is sort of my first point. Inherently, one has to subscribe already to some other conspiracy about how the world works for obsession over Obama's nationality to even make sense.
Like, if you don't believe there is a shadow government (Soros/Kochs respectively) that uses politicians as puppets already, the simple fact of Obama not being American would really just be like a technicality or an oversight. Sure, if it were true, he shouldn't be President... but like, nobody has ever questioned if he won the election, so aren't there bigger issues? (Forgive me, I don't religify documents written 300 years ago).
So, once we accept that Obama is simply a shell for a greater, eviler, shadowyer force, it falls into place! Of course he is foreign, how else would they install a puppet leader... Or, maybe not. At this point, the Birther nonsense actually works against itself, watch:
- There is a group of people who are going to raise a child from birth, largely in America, to be the President of the United States. He will be a puppet for whatever their desires are.
- These people are smart enough to plot this ahead decades in advance.
- They choose a kid who was born outside the country, violating a statute that has been part of presidential law since the late 1700s.
- There is no reason for them to choose a foreign child over a domestic one, considering Obama was all but raised in America anyways. In fact, it makes them seem inept and not very threatening, considering the one thing they had to do was raise a child to be President and they failed 9 months before day one...
- No, really, WTF, how does that make sense? Don't give me shit about documents and staying off the grid, they knew they would need those documents GOD DAMN IT!
Ok, so, whatever. Let us accept for a moment that there is some logic to a group of people raising a foreign born child, most of the time in America, to become President despite a tautological disqualification of his eligibility based on hundreds of years of legal precedence.
The Plot
So, here you are, would be conqueror of the globe. Its the 50s, life is good, men are officially the socially dominant gender, and you need some way to take down/take over the United States of America. So, you do what any comic book super villain would probably do in one of those throw away arcs after a major event: you buy a baby.
I want to start a running tally here, just of people who would probably be needed to accomplish this conspiracy. The simplest is two, just you and the mother, or I guess you could steal the kid, then it is just you. But this is really risky, and you would have to be some type of Lex Luthor evil to come up with a plan like this all alone and execute it, also very well connected to pull it off with nobody wondering why you have now adopted a foreign child (if you are black this is easier). Also, why buy foreign? Typical Birther hypocrisy!
afaik, the current conspiracy goes like: shadowy elites conspire for Obama's mother to have a baby in a foreign country, then come back and raise it in America, forging all necessary documents, and erasing any trace of the travel and medical procedures. How many people would this need to be? Ok, lets low ball. How many is a group of shadowy elites, and how many do there have to be before they are both powerful enough and connected enough to pull this off? Say you get lucky, and Obama's mother is in on the deal from day 1. Now all you need are people who have connections to the aviation and medical centres in both Kenya and Hawaii, not to mention a connection with the newspaper that published the birth.
So, lets say 4 (including Obama's mother) in this “shadow council” (and that is being hugely generous), at least one decently high raking official in both the Kenyan and American airline terminal, who would be able to destroy all records of the flight out of country, a medical staff in Kenya, probably 3-4 people at least, staff at a Hawaiian hospital to forge records and someone in the editorial staff of the paper.
So, right off the bat, at least a dozen, plus Obama's father. Now, all these people don't have to know there is a conspiracy to take over the presidency, but nobody is going to risk their job for nothing. Further, what are the odds that someone says no? You then have to pay them to keep quiet about you wanting to destroy records and forge birth certificates. But we are talking about doctors in some cases here, people who really wouldn't need money, do you try to rough them up? Eliminate them? Suddenly, the number of people involved skyrockets, and the baby is barely out of the womb.
So what, you have a cabal of people who must be incredibly wealthy and well connected, potentially dozens of minions doing illegal or strange things, that they must be payed enough to never speak of to anyone, and potentially dozens more who have to be paid to keep silent after they reject the offer. Further, none of them are willing to take the money and go to the press anyways, or to turn you in for trying to get documents forged.
Now, these points are, individually, negotiable. However, any time you add another layer of complexity to the plan, like say, they used underlings so that the people doing the forging, etc, never knew who to blame, or, they intimidated people to keep them quiet. However, each layer from here adds dozens of people that would additionally need to be involved in the plot, themselves needing to be paid, each representing a possible leak of the conspiracy to the press, for what would be, even at this point, a good deal of fame (shadowy elite buying foreign baby and forging documents). Bare minimum, you are looking at 20ish people who have no reason to be loyal to you, other than what you pay them, but realistically, it could be in the hundreds.
But you have a foreign baby with no legal American documents that you want to some day run a nation, a job for which legal American documents are a requirement.
I'm going to stop right here, actually, and come to another point. If you have a cabal with the power to do this, you have probably picked the worst way to take over the state. You would have better luck rigging an election, or just straight up buying votes. I guess this way is more farsighted (and hey, that is a decent segue).
Longevity
I sort of like to think I have some long term plans. I'm no good with money, so I don't have savings or stuff like that, but I do have an idea of where I want to be in 10 years, much more generally in 20, and really no idea about 30 or beyond.
This is a plan at least 50 years in the making. In any reasonable scenario, it was one created by people who knew they would never see it through to the end. While most impressive, this raises a few more problems.
The first is how much this expands the number of people in the equation. Not only is it a shady cabal, but they must pick and choose new members, all with intimate access to Obama's life, to shape it and mold him in their image. But, I suppose there are a good number of people who would gladly participate in the shaping of a foreign child to be raised into a puppet President that destroys America.
Not only that, but you must now also find a way to deal with people who might object to the way you manipulate Obama, or even just people who have questions. Oh, and Obama has to agree with this from, literally, the day he is born.
So, ok, maybe I am just ignorant on this. Maybe I just haven't read the Birther literature enough, but I don't see how anyone can believe this. The absolute flawless execution of a plan that requires multiple generations of people working over 50 years to usurp the Presidency of the United states, never raising any eyebrows that couldn't be paid off or silenced, intimately connected to infrastructure around the globe, etc, etc. And for what? Someone who they knew day one wasn't going to work. There is no reason for this at all, in fact, using an American child to do the exact same thing is a much more logically sound argument. So yes, people who say Obama is an American born Nazi-Socialist-Muslim who wants to enslave people are making a more logically consistent argument than are Birthers.
Oh, lol, sorry guys 😛
Originally posted by inimalistHe has his reputation to keep, sure alot more folks are gonna feel happier now that he has shown it, I can see how it would help some. Better late than never I say, But waiting late still leads to other questions.
see?what was the point of him even pandering to this in the first place.
there is no standard of evidence that would satisfy the complaint.
Re: Re: Obama Birth certificate fiasco
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
And he clearly isn't doing a good job, unless you consider reneging on nearly every campaign promise, renegotiating NAFTA, closing GITMO, raising taxes on the wealthy, pulling out of Iraq, etc, etc, doing a good job.
I hate to disagree with you based on facts:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/browse/
Promises Kept: 134
Promises Broken: 42
Also, I hate to point out...but...if I can clean up all of those artifacts (in M-er Effin' MS Paint, if needed) and I'm definitely an amateur "shopper", why in the world would the Federal Government not have someone clean that up to make it look real? Is there a much more simple and obvious reason for why there are artifacts and anomolies in the images? The answer is a "duh." Why does it have to be this complicated conspiracy theory instead a more obvious reason? Would they REALLY make that much of a mistake after 2 years of saying "no" especially when they were horrendously accused of shopping the origina one released back in the day? Is it REALLY that hard to clean up those documents?
Only thing I can think of is, "puuuuuuh leeeeez."
Originally posted by chomperx9Well, there is some part of me, waayyy in the back of my mind, that would not be surprised if he turned out to be the Anti-Christ. Raised Christian with a Muslem middle name; half-black/half-white; a virtual unknown who swept up the most powerful office in the world; smokes...
some, but another part of me makes me feel more suspicious, since it has taken this long to show others.
Originally posted by inimalist😂 ... And yet, you did. Good post, though. Makes me think, maybe my own theory is not too far off. 😉
ugh, I can't believe I'm doing this...
Re: Re: Re: Obama Birth certificate fiasco
Originally posted by dadudemon
I hate to disagree with you based on facts:http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/browse/
Promises Kept: 134
Promises Broken: 42Also, I hate to point out...but...if I can clean up all of those artifacts (in M-er Effin' MS Paint, if needed) and I'm definitely an amateur "shopper", why in the world would the Federal Government not have someone clean that up to make it look real? Is there a much more simple and obvious reason for why there are artifacts and anomolies in the images? The answer is a "duh." Why does it have to be this complicated conspiracy theory instead a more obvious reason? Would they REALLY make that much of a mistake after 2 years of saying "no" especially when they were horrendously accused of shopping the origina one released back in the day? Is it REALLY that hard to clean up those documents?
Only thing I can think of is, "puuuuuuh leeeeez."
The Birth certificate has clearly been scanned from some sort of book judging by the fold on the left hand side, so why did they bother spreading the water mark like background over the background of the paper at all.
Not only that buy Hawaii´s governmer claimed until recently that no birth certificate exists.
There´s so many odd things about this. It´s obvious that its going to interest some people, especially the opposition pary. Have they commented on this at all?
At my work, there is an unfortunate amount of Fox News played. It's been amusing to see even them turn violently on Trump for this nonsense. He's also dropped dramatically from 1st to I think 4th in their GOP presidential polls. A small group will always cling to this idea for whatever reasons, but I think that's all we need to see to know that the fervor will fade (and already has, to an extent). And that it won't be an issue in any election...anyone voting based off of this would've voted the same way regardless.
Originally posted by Mindship
😂 ... And yet, you did. Good post, though. Makes me think, maybe my own theory is not too far off. 😉
Interesting opinion piece on Salon and a bit on the Daily show about this.
Remeber back in the Clinton days, they used to try and say he murdered his friend and was a drug kingpin in Arkansas.
It might be more that there is a propagandist right wing "rumor mill" that basically just throws out stuff until it sticks, maybe resonating with some inherent racial ideas, but more a deliberate attempt to discredit a democratic president than any single other issue.
I don't disagree with you though. A lot of the people who are convinced by this, probably do have underlying racial issues, but like Digi just said:
Originally posted by Digi
anyone voting based off of this would've voted the same way regardless.
👆 good post btw
Originally posted by BicnarokWhy in the hell did I just sit through that video? What a crackpot!
I noticed on the news yesterday that Obama´s Birth Certificate was released to prove his US nationality, it took over two years, but I thought "well that´s one daft conspiracy out of the way". Now there´s LOADS of sites online pointing out apparent photoshop errors, includin photoshop experts.Here´s one excellent video showing problems.
I don´t really care where he was born to be honest, as long as he´s doing a good job.
This will probably get kicked to the conspiracy corner, even though it clearly isnt a conspiracy.
This is still going? Jesus, why can't you people go after the billion legitimate reasons to hate Obama. He could be legitimately removed from office and jailed tomorrow just like the last president and for the same reasons. So could most of congress (it is an impeachable offense to fail to impeach a president who is committing impeachable offenses).
Re: Re: Re: Re: Obama Birth certificate fiasco
Originally posted by Bicnarok
The Birth certificate has clearly been scanned from some sort of book judging by the fold on the left hand side, so why did they bother spreading the water mark like background over the background of the paper at all.
There's anomalies, for sure...but it's rather ridiculous to assume that, with all of his resources, could not doctor up a birth certificate.
There could be many explanations for why it has some anomalies but the last one on the list should definitely be some sort of far-fetched conspiracy theory.
Think about it: how easy would it be for an amateur photo-shopper to fix those anomalies? For me, it would have taken less than afternoon. What about someone actually good like our very own Peach???????
Originally posted by Bicnarok
Not only that buy Hawaii´s governmer claimed until recently that no birth certificate exists.
He would have had access to something he should not legally have access to? What about HIPAA? He could have been sued if he obtained that information and released it...in addition to the person who released it.
And, the governor never held the position that one did not exist. IIRC, he said for people to stop asking.
Originally posted by Bicnarok
There´s so many odd things about this. It´s obvious that its going to interest some people, especially the opposition pary. Have they commented on this at all?
No, there's very little odd things about this. The odd things are the reaching conspiracy theories.
I wouldn't have the FIRST clue on where to find my birth certificate or where to even start.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Obama Birth certificate fiasco
Originally posted by King Kandy
Oh? And when exactly did he say that?
well if you use a common tool named "google" you get various information on the subject.
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=254401
http://www.innewstoday.net/abercrombie-admits-there-is-no-obama-birth-certificate/
http://thedailypen.blogspot.com/2011/01/third-hawaiian-official-denies.html