Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree. We magically discovered our "spy" routes over another countriy when theatplane crashed in China, remember? 🙂'merica!
America flew a SEAL team into china to perform an assassination against someone their intelligence apparatus was to some degree complicit in harbouring?
Originally posted by inimalist
America flew a SEAL team into china to perform an assassination against someone their intelligence apparatus was to some degree complicit in harbouring?
No, we were exceuting military operations in China without China agreeing to it and they definitely would have disagreed had they known. When they found out, they were pissed.
Additionally, we would probably never find out about something like that, if they did.
Originally posted by dadudemon
No, we were exceuting military operations in China without China agreeing to it and they definitely would have disagreed had they known. When they found out, they were pissed.Additionally, we would probably never find out about something like that, if they did.
well, spy planes are a totally different matter than are special forces operations
but ya, if they did do a hit on some chinese target, we would never hear it from Obama
Originally posted by inimalist
well, spy planes are a totally different matter than are special forces operations
If you choose to draw an arbitrary line in the military operations sand, sure.
Originally posted by inimalist
but ya, if they did do a hit on some chinese target, we would never hear it from Obama
And here's where our differences are reconciled. 🙂
In fact, we very well could have, disguised it as an internal "thing" to China, and no one will ever know the wiser.
Originally posted by inimalist
ok, ignore that part and answer as to why a proper burial makes America more at risk
It could backfire in the sense that the extremist Muslims could argue that any Muslim working for the Americans in giving one of their own an Islamic burial is not a true Muslim, so therefore a pointless ceremony and possibly an abuse of their faith.
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
It could backfire in the sense that the extremist Muslims could argue that any Muslim working for the Americans in giving one of their own an Islamic burial is not a true Muslim, so therefore a pointless ceremony and possibly an abuse of their faith.
Can't play with them. Can't win with them. [...] Can't do it
Dunno if this has been posted, but here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110503/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_bin_laden_dna
WASHINGTON – Knowing there would be disbelievers, the U.S. says it used convincing means to confirm Osama bin Laden's identity during and after the firefight that killed him. But the mystique that surrounded the terrorist chieftain in life is persisting in death.
Was it really him? How do we know? Where are the pictures?
Already, those questions are spreading in Pakistan and surely beyond. In the absence of photos and with his body given up to the sea, many people don't believe bin Laden — the Great Emir to some, the fabled escape artist of the Tora Bora mountains to foe and friend alike — is really dead.
U.S. officials are balancing that skepticism with the sensitivities that might be inflamed by showing images they say they have of the dead al-Qaida leader and video of his burial at sea. Still, it appeared likely that photographic evidence would be produced.
[Related: Timeline: Key dates in the hunt for bin Laden]
[ For complete coverage of politics and policy, go to Yahoo! Politics ]
"We are going to do everything we can to make sure that nobody has any basis to try to deny that we got Osama bin Laden," John Brennan, President Barack Obama's counterterrorism adviser, said Monday. He said the U.S. will "share what we can because we want to make sure that not only the American people but the world understand exactly what happened."
In July 2003, the U.S. took heat but also quieted most conspiracy theorists by releasing graphic photos of the corpses of Saddam Hussein's two powerful sons to prove American forces had killed them.
So far, the U.S. has cited evidence that satisfied the Navy SEAL force, and at least most of the world, that they had the right man in Abbottabad, Pakistan.
The helicopter-borne raiding squad that swarmed the luxury compound identified bin Laden by appearance. A woman in the compound who was identified as his wife was said to have called out bin Laden's name in the melee.
Officials produced a quick DNA match from his remains that they said established bin Laden's identity, even absent the other techniques, with 99.9 percent certainty. U.S. officials also said bin Laden was identified through photo comparisons and other methods.
Tellingly, an al-Qaida spokesman, in vowing vengeance against America, called him a martyr, offering no challenge to the U.S. account of his death.
[Related: Major attacks by al-Qaeda]
Even so, it's almost inevitable that the bin Laden mythology will not end with the bullet in his head. If it suits extremist ends to spin a fantastical tale of survival or trickery to gullible ears, expect to hear it.
In the immediate aftermath, people in Abbottabad expressed widespread disbelief that bin Laden had died — or ever lived — among them.
"I'm not ready to buy bin Laden was here," said Haris Rasheed, 22, who works in a fast food restaurant. "How come no one knew he was here and why did they bury him so quickly? This is all fake — a drama, and a crude one."
Kamal Khan, 25, who is unemployed, said the official story "looks fishy to me."
The burial from an aircraft carrier in the North Arabian Sea was videotaped aboard the ship, according to a senior defense official who spoke on condition of anonymity because a decision on whether to release the video was not final. The official said it was highly likely that the video, along with photographs of bin Laden's body, would be made public in coming days.
The swiftness of the burial may have raised suspicions but was in accord with Islamic traditions. Islamic scholars, however, challenged U.S. assertions that a burial at sea was an appropriate fate for a Muslim who had died on land.
The act denied al-Qaida any sort of burial shrine for their slain leader. Once again, bin Laden had vanished, but this time at the hands of the United States and in a way that ensures he is gone forever.
If that satisfies U.S. goals and its sense of justice, Brad Sagarin, a psychologist at Northern Illinois University who studies persuasion, said the rapid disposition of the body "would certainly be a rich sort of kernel for somebody to grasp onto if they were motivated to disbelieve this."
Also expected to come out is a tape made by bin Laden, before U.S. forces bore down on him, that may provide fodder to those who insist he is alive.
Pakistan, for one, is a land of conspiracy theorists, and far-fetched rumors abound on the streets and in blogs throughout the Arab world. But that's not just a characteristic of the Islamic pipeline. Many ordinary Americans — and one billionaire — persistently questioned whether Obama was born in the U.S. despite lacking any evidence that he wasn't.
Sagarin said most people will probably be convinced bin Laden is dead because they cannot imagine the government maintaining such an extraordinary lie to the contrary in this day and age.
Yet, he said, "as with the birther conspiracy, there's going to be a set of people who are never going to be convinced. People filter the information they receive through their current attitudes, their current perspectives."
To be sure, even photos and video, subject to digital manipulation, may not provide the final word to everyone. But Seth Jones, a RAND Corp. political scientist who advised the commander of U.S. special operations forces in Afghanistan, said the administration should do all it can to minimize doubts.
"There are always conspiracy theories," he said. "There are individuals who believe that bin Laden wasn't involved in the 9/11 attacks."
'Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous different influential positions under three different Presidents and still works with the Defense Department, shockingly told The Alex Jones Show yesterday that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001 and that he was prepared to testify in front of a grand jury how a top general told him directly that 9/11 was a false flag inside job.
Pieczenik cannot be dismissed as a “conspiracy theorist”. He served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations, Nixon, Ford and Carter, while also working under Reagan and Bush senior, and still works as a consultant for the Department of Defense. A former US Navy Captain, Pieczenik achieved two prestigious Harry C. Solomon Awards at the Harvard Medical School as he simultaneously completed a PhD at MIT.'
http://www.prisonplanet.com/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001-911-a-false-flag.html
Originally posted by King Kandy
Yes, because it's impossible for someone to ever switch sides...
I disagree, spies have switched side in the past. Humans are also unpredictable, or was this an ironic statement🙂
Originally posted by dadudemonIt would be in Bin Laden's best interests to PROVE that the US failed to kill him and then mock us while doing it.
The argument isn´t whether he is dead or not, but HOW LONG he has been dead and whether he was "kept on ice" or DNA of his, for a "rainy day",in this case to boost Obama´s election campaign or direct attention from his obviously fake birth certificate.
He has reportedly been killed 9 times so far, not only that he had an extrememly bad illness, was on dialasis etc. This was mentioned in various reports.
Originally posted by Deano
Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik
lol, this guy?
Originally posted by inimalist
lol, this guy?
Extra! Extra! Novelist has great story! Wants to sell it!
Originally posted by Bicnarok
The argument isn´t whether he is dead or not, but HOW LONG he has been dead
No, the argument is that everything any President, any part or whole of any government, does is a conspiracy.
It must feel good for conspiracy theorists when they consider the election of a black man to the Presidency has 51% of self-identifying mainstream Republicans suddenly thinking they're on to something. being laughed off for as long as they have, to now suddenly have a willing audience give credence to your assertions must be an ego rush. Sadly, when a person flatly rejects anything said by any government on the basis of obvious conspiracy and questionable evidence, they tend to overwhelmingly ignore that the evidence they offer is doubly questionable and lends itself to a contrary conspiracy.
I'm a big fan of UFOs and cryptozoology and actually listen to podcasts on these subjects when I'm relaxing or working. In the last year my preferred show has gone from absolutely leaving anything political out of the discussion and has slowly started injecting this birth certificate, Kenyan socialist crap into a lot of their discussions. The sudden increase in people willing to give your point of view a spin because a black man is President has proven to be lucrative, even more so lately since half the country has gone batshit crazy since January of 2009.
Originally posted by skekUng
In the last year my preferred show has gone from absolutely leaving anything political out of the discussion and has slowly started injecting this birth certificate, Kenyan socialist crap into a lot of their discussions. The sudden increase in people willing to give your point of view a spin because a black man is President has proven to be lucrative, even more so lately since half the country has gone batshit crazy since January of 2009.
Bill Maher? Makes me sad too.
Originally posted by Robtard
Bill Maher? Makes me sad too.
Bill Maher is a political comedian who has remained consistant. The shows I listen to that have become decidedly political are not comedy shows and have suddenly become political; Bill Maher has always made money off of politics and admitted as much. Perhaps you just don't care for the President, either. And Mr. Maher is certainly no stranger to disagreeing with the President.