kit fisto and saesee tiin vs darth maul

Originally posted by Nephthys
Which is why I'm not saying taht Visas should be taken as flat out fact, no questions asked, but rather that we need to logically look at what she's saying to collaborate or tear down her words. Vader on teh other hand has [b]absolutely no fvcking way that he could possibly know what the fvck he's talking about. Sidious is the mostest powerful huh? He's only ever met 2-3 other sith ever! He simply can't make that judgement. He's in no position to. His thought on the matter are complete bullshit end of story.[/b]

And what exactly corroborates Visas's speculation on the matter? That because Nihilus drained Katarr he can end all life everywhere with his mere presence? Why is hers an informed opinion but Vader's not? Vader's, whose word on Force related matters seems lightyears more convincing than hers?

N.
So...... do you think the quote is literal or not?

My conclusion remains the same, but the reason I feel that way is simply because I haven't seen Luke demonstrate that level of power anywhere else.

Originally posted by Zampanó
If you say that you are biased, but then do nothing about it, that doesn't make you less wrong. Admitting a mistake and then continuing to do it is not an effective rhetorical or rational strategy.

Personally, I am convinced that Visas is an effective source, and I would suspect that Vader has a good understanding of Sidious's power, as well. What quote was it that you are talking about, exactly?

(I have been operating in good faith. The fact that your actions have been exclusively facetious over the past few months doesn't mean that everyone's were.)

I think you slightly misunderstood my intention there. My apology. My interpretation of the text has been exactly as I have argued it. However, I DO recognize that my interpretation does have a slight double standard. The only way to do that would be to drop both examples, or embrace both examples. I don't do that, because my interpretation of the sources (and other sources) leads me to believe that (for instance) Visas is not credible while Vader is. I realize that it is an opinion, as yours is, and a bit of a double standard, but it is my interpretation, and one I will fight to defend.

I remember you saying something along the lines of "It's not being right that matters, it is saying it the most times in the most different ways" (very rough paraphrase, but you said it when we all went and trolled on RJ for awhile, if you remember)

Originally posted by RagingBoner
And what exactly corroborates Visas's speculation on the matter? That because Nihilus drained Katarr he can end all life everywhere with his mere presence? Why is hers an informed opinion but Vader's not? Vader's, whose word on Force related matters seems [b]lightyears more convincing than hers?

My conclusion remains the same, but the reason I feel that way is simply because I haven't seen Luke demonstrate that level of power anywhere else. [/B]

Because his opinion isn't informed! He doesn't possess teh knowledge to make that call. He has absolutely no way to judge the strength of Sith before his own life, aka 99.99% of the entire Sith Line and certainly not in reference to Sidious' own power. Taking him at face value would be like me accepting that my friend is the best cricketer ever when I have no idea about pretty much any other cricketer ever. That would be utterly moronic.

Utterly. Moronic!

And said conclusion is?

Originally posted by Zampanó
Going out on a limb, I think the crucial difference is that Visas's remarks are limited only to things about which she is intimately acquainted. She knows what N. is capable of, and she alerts the player to his abilities which she has seen firsthand.

Vader is not a noted scholar, let alone scholar. He does not have personal knowledge of the Ancient Sith or really any other Sith at all, except for Dooku. His perspective on Sidious's abilities is admissible, but comparative statements that involve people he's never met are less authoritative.

Likewise, Visas is not an established scholar. Vader has been a full fledged Sith Lord for two decades, training under the most informed Sith Master in history. If we look at their Sith C.V., Vader's definitely packing the bigger... err... résumé.

You told me that Visas word by itself is not authoritative, but you interpret it to be factual in this case because of your perceived corroboration from other sources.

Given that Vader's claims about Palpatine's abilities have been corroborated at least as well as Visas's, what's the difference?

Originally posted by truejedi
I think you slightly misunderstood my intention there. My apology. My interpretation of the text has been exactly as I have argued it. However, I DO recognize that my interpretation does have a slight double standard. The only way to do that would be to drop both examples, or embrace both examples. I don't do that, because my interpretation of the sources (and other sources) leads me to believe that (for instance) Visas is not credible while Vader is. I realize that it is an opinion, as yours is, and a bit of a double standard, but it is my interpretation, and one I will fight to defend.

I remember you saying something along the lines of "It's not being right that matters, it is saying it the most times in the most different ways" (very rough paraphrase, but you said it when we all went and trolled on RJ for awhile, if you remember)

Originally posted by RagingBoner
Likewise, Visas is not an established scholar. Vader has been a full fledged Sith Lord for two decades, training under the most informed Sith Master in history. If we look at their Sith C.V., Vader's definitely packing the bigger... err... résumé.

You told me that Visas word by itself is not authoritative, but you interpret it to be factual in this case because of your perceived corroboration from other sources.

Given that Vader's claims about Palpatine's abilities have been corroborated at least as well as Visas's, what's the difference?

Vader is an awe-struck farm boy prone to superlatives. There is a clear difference in the quality of testimony here. Vader may happen to be right, but if he is it is pure luck. He isn't basing his evaluation on a thorough understanding of the topic. Visas is the closest thing to an expert on Nihlius that isn't Kreia.

Do you guys even realize how much you're going in circles here.

Like a shark, stalking its prey through the undergrowth.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Do you guys even realize how much you're going in circles here.

Whoever re-posts their position the most times wins.

And GOD BLESS AMERICA!

Saesee Tiin is an unknown. Maul wins!

TEAM 1 WINS!

wait a minute, why is Vader a farm-boy?

Because he grew up as a slave.

um... as a mechanic slave. how do you get "farmboy" out of that?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because he grew up as a slave.

All slaves are farm boys. Stop trying to break convention.

Originally posted by truejedi
um... as a mechanic slave. how do you get "farmboy" out of that?

Because hes a slave.

what?

I don't see how I can make that any clearer.