Are unions feasible today?

Started by Tha C-Master12 pages

Originally posted by inimalist
collective labour is good until it has any ability to impact the company that pays them?
Until it causes a company to hemorrhage money.

i dont see any difference between what I said and what you said

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Until it causes a company to hemorrhage money.

If paying good living wages is "hemorrhaging money", then I would say capitalism is a failed system.

Originally posted by inimalist
i dont see any difference between what I said and what you said
There is a difference between a gain and a loss I imagine...

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
There is a difference between a gain and a loss I imagine...

meaning?

Companies don't want to be at a deficit when running their operations?

hence they should treat their employees well

So a company having deficits means they treat their employees wrongly? Other countries have far worse conditions and they manage a profit. What are the employees giving to the company? American car manufacturers losing billions while the workers are striking when they were receiving sky high pay and benefits until they died, even after they stopped working? Why should they be taken care of when they aren't giving to the company? Why would consumers pay a $1500 legacy cost to cover the pay of workers who worked at the plant before they were even born?

I'll tell you what, you hire people and pay them skyhigh rates and let me know how it goes if it is that easy. Full benefits, even after they leave.

The point is America can't afford those rates anymore, maybe in the 50's it could do that, but with global competition and the economy it's too expensive.

Originally posted by inimalist
"other countries don't believe in basic human rights and a living wage, thus, our companies must be allowed to exploit our own citizens such that we can compete with, essentially, slave labour"

man, I love your utopia

Originally posted by inimalist
Not all countries do that either, a gross generalization. It also proves that loss in profits has nothing to do with mistreatment. It has to do with... losing money.

I'm not in the utopia. I don't believe money comes from the sky. Anybody who has seen both ends would understand.

That's as realistic as can be. If the employee rates go up, where does the money come from?

The profit margin that isn't actually used for anything, and the 3 million dollar bonuses CEO's and other execs randomly decide to just "give" themselves?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Anybody who has seen both ends would understand.

oh well, I deffer to your clear expertise on the matter then

Thanks. 😛

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
The profit margin that isn't actually used for anything, and the 3 million dollar bonuses CEO's and other execs randomly decide to just "give" themselves?

That would defer to the shareholders and the board of directors to take part in that. If they feel the CEO is being paid too much and not producing results, they should definitely take action on that. I wouldn't waste my money in a company if the CEO was being paid more and not producing.

Employees aren't dealt with the same way CEO's are though.

There's one thing to give a raise to someone who works hard, but paying 80,000 employees 2x as much as what they were being paid before, equates to well over what the CEO makes. Prices should be trimmed all over in a slow time. Many CEO's choose to take one dollar as a salary or take no pay at all. The super paid CEO's are mainly the big shot ones of massive companies, many only make about $130,000 a year or so.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
There's one thing to give a raise to someone who works hard, but paying 80,000 employees 2x as much as what they were being paid before, equates to well over what the CEO makes.

So you're basically saying, that you see nothing wrong with the CEO making more than his 160,000 employs combined?

Unions are necessary for protectionism, legal hiring, fair wages, benefits, standards of both work and pay, and as a counter-balance to political corporate power. When the government becomes as entrenched with money as it is now, the unions organize a general strike, ideally freezing the economy. Unions are necessary which is why there is a direct correlation in the American economy to % union membership and economic growth and prosperity.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So now you're telling me what I have seen?

I'm telling you what we can both see and read on this very website.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
People can't afford to buy a few shares in anything?

That depends on the "anything" to which you are referring. Sadly, "a few shares" does not a majority shareholder make, much less a member of a cooperative.

totally outdated concept

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
There have been numerous union workers complain about the coercion to join a union and the wages and the lack of returns some get.

So, you're saying a person who owns a "few shares" in a company refuses to join a union because the return on their "few shares" is going to somehow make their investment a waste? What person do you know that owns enough shares of the company they work for that they are suddenly more concerned about the cost of doing business with a union because of a lackluster return on their investment than they are fair wages they recieve as an employee? Last time I checked, people don't get health insurance by investing in a company that offers it to their employees.

Originally posted by skekUng
So, you're saying a person who owns a "few shares" in a company refuses to join a union because the return on their "few shares" is going to somehow make their investment a waste? What person do you know that owns enough shares of the company they work for that they are suddenly more concerned about the cost of doing business with a union because of a lackluster return on their investment than they are fair wages they recieve as an employee? Last time I checked, people don't get health insurance by investing in a company that offers it to their employees.

duh, they just quit, find a better job, or commit to one of the several other sources of income all people should have, because that is a reasonable expectation of all people everywhere