Nope, this is obviously not written in anyone's point of view:
As Yoda released Whirry from his mind's hold, and let her spill gently onto the flagstones far below, the tip of Dooku's lightsaber scored a burning line across his shoulder. The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible—wickedness cut in red light.
If you can prove that Dark Rendezvous is Dooku's diary then I'll admit it's according to Dooku.
come to think of it: What does "malice made visible--wickedness cut in red light"? even mean?
And yeah, the book is saying "perhaps his equal" while we are able to ascertain from the rest of the mythos that yeah, definitly his equal and more.
So taking that statement and saying Mace>Dooku does not make the statement false.
Originally posted by truejedi
come to think of it: What does "malice made visible--wickedness cut in red light"? even mean?And yeah, the book is saying "perhaps his equal" while we are able to ascertain from the rest of the mythos that yeah, definitly his equal and more.
So taking that statement and saying Mace>Dooku does not make the statement false.
Given that he mentions Vjun's darkside nexus properties right before hes probably saying that his bladework is empowered and darksidey and stuff.
Originally posted by truejedi
come to think of it: What does "malice made visible--wickedness cut in red light"? even mean?And yeah, the book is saying "perhaps his equal" while we are able to ascertain from the rest of the mythos that yeah, definitly his equal and more.
So taking that statement and saying Mace>Dooku does not make the statement false.
I never did that...
However, on a planet like Vjun, Mace is outmatched by Dooku.
Originally posted by truejedi
No Z, i have never read fiction before. Care to enlighten me on what we can ascertain about Dooku's blade by that statement?
I'm getting tired of having to explain the obvious to dullards. According to Zampano's First Law of Speculative Fact, "Z." is free to make any claim he wishes and pass it off as the gospel truth. Henceforth, it would behoove you to treat everything as open to interpretation unless interpreted by He Who Is Not Beholden to the Burden of Proof.
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Well then you have a very odd interpretation of the piece of text.
Simply a theory with which I am toying. We know that Windu's mastery of Vaapad largely mitigates the combat advantages afforded by the dark side of the Force. Initially outmatched by Darth Sidious's speed and agility, Windu goes on the defensive until such a time that Vaapad enables him to siphon and reflect the Sith Lord's speed. Vaapad also enables Windu to even more directly siphon and reflect Palpatine's Force lightning by way of a conduit (in this case, his lightsaber).
Vjun is a dark side nexus that affords the Count powers beyond his normal scope. But even with this extra advantage, he is unable to overpower Yoda, who is simultaneously distracted by Dooku's cunning tactics (hurling Whirry out the window) and restraining himself ("Wish to hurt you, I do not!"😉. In contrast, Darth Sidious was able to fight an "unrestrained" Yoda to a relative standstill despite not being on a dark side nexus.
Therefore, we can assume that Vjun!Dooku is weaker in the dark side than his Master. The same Master who was bested in a lightsaber duel by Windu.
With this in mind, we can interpret the quote a different way without radically altering the context:
As Yoda released Whirry from his mind's hold, and let her spill gently onto the flagstones far below, the tip of Dooku's lightsaber scored a burning line across his shoulder. The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible—wickedness cut in red light.
As a master of Vaapad and, therefore a "high end master of multiple forms," Windu is likely the Count's equal in terms of technical aptitude on neutral ground. But the passage indicates, on Vjun, that Dooku's swordplay was noticeably quicker, more efficient, and more ruthless -- making him more dangerous than what he'd be on a Force-neutral world. Which is to say that Vjun!Dooku was probably "faster, more efficient, and more ruthless" than regular!Windu.
However, this does not mean that Windu would be unable to defeat the good Count. In fact, I'd say it's quite likely that he would win. The powerful advantages afforded by the dark side on Vjun are demonstrably less potent than the advantages afforded by Darth Sidious's natural strength in the dark side. Because Windu was eventually able to mitigate those, it is entirely possible that the metaphysical properties of Vaapad and mastery of the shatterpoint charism would give Windu the win in a strict duel with Vjun!Dooku.
Originally posted by RagingBoner
Vjun is a dark side nexus that affords the Count powers beyond his normal scope. But even with this extra advantage, he is unable to overpower Yoda, who is simultaneously distracted by Dooku's cunning tactics (hurling Whirry out the window) and restraining himself ("Wish to hurt you, I do not!"😉. In contrast, Darth Sidious was able to fight an "unrestrained" Yoda to a relative standstill despite not being on a dark side nexus.Therefore, we can assume that Vjun!Dooku is weaker in the dark side than his Master. The same Master who was bested in a lightsaber duel by Windu.
Im not sure about this. On Vjun Dooku and Yoda never had a Force Battle, only a Saber one. And even in the Saber one Dooku was giving ground "Slowly, Slowly". And everyone here agrees Yoda most likely overpowered Sidious in the Saber fight also.
Also Vjun was making Yoda more fierce than usual, so he was naturally being more aggressive than he usually would. "In the Dark Vjun air Yoda's sight was terrible to behold"
He also admitted he was going for the kill, "even here where the dark side whispers to me Love you enough to kill you I do.."
As for the distractions, it hardly had an effect on most of the fight, there was one at the beginning, in which Yoda quickly saved whirry and began fighting, and one in the end for Dooku to escape.
Originally posted by RagingBoner
Simply a theory with which I am toying. We know that Windu's mastery of Vaapad largely mitigates the combat advantages afforded by the dark side of the Force. Initially outmatched by Darth Sidious's speed and agility, Windu goes on the defensive until such a time that Vaapad enables him to siphon and reflect the Sith Lord's speed. Vaapad also enables Windu to even more directly siphon and reflect Palpatine's Force lightning by way of a conduit (in this case, his lightsaber).Vjun is a dark side nexus that affords the Count powers beyond his normal scope. But even with this extra advantage, he is unable to overpower Yoda, who is simultaneously distracted by Dooku's cunning tactics (hurling Whirry out the window) and restraining himself ("Wish to hurt you, I do not!"😉. In contrast, Darth Sidious was able to fight an "unrestrained" Yoda to a relative standstill despite not being on a dark side nexus.
Therefore, we can assume that Vjun!Dooku is weaker in the dark side than his Master. The same Master who was bested in a lightsaber duel by Windu.
With this in mind, we can interpret the quote a different way without radically altering the context:
As Yoda released Whirry from his mind's hold, and let her spill gently onto the flagstones far below, the tip of Dooku's lightsaber scored a burning line across his shoulder. The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible—wickedness cut in red light.
As a master of Vaapad and, therefore a "high end master of multiple forms," Windu is likely the Count's equal in terms of technical aptitude on neutral ground. But the passage indicates, on Vjun, that Dooku's swordplay was noticeably quicker, more efficient, and more ruthless -- making him more dangerous than what he'd be on a Force-neutral world. Which is to say that Vjun!Dooku was probably "faster, more efficient, and more ruthless" than regular!Windu.
However, this does not mean that Windu would be unable to defeat the good Count. In fact, I'd say it's quite likely that he would win. The powerful advantages afforded by the dark side on Vjun are demonstrably less potent than the advantages afforded by Darth Sidious's natural strength in the dark side. Because Windu was eventually able to mitigate those, it is entirely possible that the metaphysical properties of Vaapad and mastery of the shatterpoint charism would give Windu the win in a strict duel with Vjun!Dooku.
tl; dr
Btw, this is Dooku using Vaapad with Mace's pimpsaber and Mace using Makashi with Dooku's crooked saber. This battle can't be evaluated.
DARTH POWER
Im not sure about this. On Vjun Dooku and Yoda never had a Force Battle, only a Saber one. And even in the Saber one Dooku was giving ground "Slowly, Slowly". And everyone here agrees Yoda most likely overpowered Sidious in the Saber fight also.
?
What's your point? I never argued Vjun!Dooku is Yoda's equal in any capacity.
DARTH POWER
Also Vjun was making Yoda more fierce than usual, so he was naturally being more aggressive than he usually would. "In the Dark Vjun air Yoda's sight was terrible to behold"
There is nothing in the text indicating that Yoda's powers were being enhanced by Vjun, whereas Dooku's were.
DARTH POWER
He also admitted he was going for the kill, "even here where the dark side whispers to me Love you enough to kill you I do.."
Oh, I don't deny that Yoda was willing to kill him, but the entire mission on Vjun is testament to the fact that he would have preferred not to. He was out to convert first, kill a distant second, even during the duel: "Wish to hurt you, I do not."
DARTH POWER
As for the distractions, it hardly had an effect on most of the fight, there was one at the beginning, in which Yoda quickly saved whirry and began fighting, and one in the end for Dooku to escape.
Saving Whirry got Yoda wounded. Vjun!Dooku was unable to fight Yoda on even ground and was being forced back the entire time.
Originally posted by RagingBoner
?There is nothing in the text indicating that Yoda's powers were being enhanced by Vjun, whereas Dooku's were.
I know I was just pointing out he was more aggressive than usual, and finding it diffiuclt to hold back due to Vjun's darkness effecting him.
And the Saber fight he was winning very slowly. I think he took Sidious more easily in the Saber fight, looking at how the Script shows Yoda disarming Sidious without too much difficulty.
I was responding to you saying Regular Sidious did much better against Yoda than Vjun Dooku.