Originally posted by Bardock42You're right about the fact that we're going back and forth with this but I fail to see where you get the idea that a person's sexual orientation is not something that they can choose. Men who call themselves straight and are not at all attracted to other men have been sent to prison and after enough time being there might engage in some sexual act with a man. Some guys say that if they closed their eyes and pretend it's a woman, they can enjoy head from a guy in prison. Statements like "It's not gay if you're on top!" are not uncommon to hear despite the obvious. Straight men who choose to commit a gay action to relieve sexual tension, but still do not prefer men in the least might make rationales like that.
Okay, I tried to explain this three times now to you. You are comparing words which refer to actions by a person (like "cheater" and "vegetarian" or "golfer"😉 to words that refer to attributes of a person (like "homosexual" or "atheist" or "music lover"😉.That is your mistake, I don't see a reason to continue this as we are just going over and over with you repeating that misunderstanding.
This would make your statement false because given the removal of their preference they choose to expand their options to include something that you're saying a person has to be born with. If a person who says that they're straight has a sexual encounter in prison with someone of the same sex I suppose you would say that they were ALWAYS bisexual and that the circumstances didn't play a part considering their actions.
You say that I'm mistaken but I believe that there's more evidence that people can adjust their preferences. A theist can become an atheist and vice versa. A straight man can become bisexual or gay if he chooses to. All he has to do is DO it.
Characteristics and attributes are not all unchangeable. Many of them can be changed by a persons choices. A person who is chaste can become a sexual deviant if they decide to, and a person who is kind can become ruthlessly cruel. People do what they WANT to do to the utmost of their ability. If they don't do something that they're not being prevented from doing then where's the evidence that they want to do it? Us saying that someone wants very much to do something that they're not doing and not being prevented from doing is downright contradictory.
Edit: Thinking about what you've been saying I will agree that a persons libido is not something that they can control easily, and that it ( the libido ) can make sexual release a high priority and compel a person to entertain more options than someone born with an average or low libido. However even the libido is not something that defines a person more than their actions.
Originally posted by The MISTER
You're right about the fact that we're going back and forth with this but I fail to see where you get the idea that a person's sexual orientation is not something that they can choose.
Because your sexual orientation is not defined by your actions. To say that it is, is to argue against the definition of the term itself.
Originally posted by inimalistOK that's true, but since you are using the term sexuality and I know you don't mean orientation isn't it a persons choice to try whatever it is that they try? If they're curious about same gender sex is the curiosity enough to label them? A perfect example... At one time I thought bdsm was cruel and despicable. I was turned off literally by the idea of causing a woman pain for her pleasure as I believed that they couldn't possibly enjoy being spanked hard or slapped during sex. Obviously it was some sick pleasure for the guy only. I learned that I was totally mistaken and that some women want nothing more than to have their hair yanked or to be tied up. After I found out that they enjoyed it I opened up to watching some. With a new outlook what previously turned me off to see, much less do, is a turn on now and I can even do some of the things that I would have NEVER done before. (like pulling hair, not hooking up the car battery or punching 😱 ) My choice to open up to this facet of sexuality was key was it not?
someone's sexuality has nothing to do with what others think of them
Originally posted by The MISTER
OK that's true, but since you are using the term sexuality and I know you don't mean orientation isn't it a persons choice to try whatever it is that they try? If they're curious about same gender sex is the curiosity enough to label them? A perfect example... At one time I thought bdsm was cruel and despicable. I was turned off literally by the idea of causing a woman pain for her pleasure as I believed that they couldn't possibly enjoy being spanked hard or slapped during sex. Obviously it was some sick pleasure for the guy only. I learned that I was totally mistaken and that some women want nothing more than to have their hair yanked or to be tied up. After I found out that they enjoyed it I opened up to watching some. With a new outlook what previously turned me off to see, much less do, is a turn on now and I can even do some of the things that I would have NEVER done before. (like pulling hair, not hooking up the car battery or punching 😱 ) My choice to open up to this facet of sexuality was key was it not?
why do you care about labeling other people's sexuality?
it is an inherently personal statement
Originally posted by inimalistI don't care about that, I care that you guys were mocking Darkside jedi despite the fact that there is more evidence that she is right. I know that you guys are pretty smart so I was surprised that you dismissed her statements as lunacy all while providing zero evidence to support your claims that choice is not a factor.
why do you care about labeling other people's sexuality?it is an inherently personal statement
A man who finds himself attracted to men would be defined as gay according to the definition that Blaxican referred to. This man chooses to ignore that and only date women. He meets a woman that he is stricken by and loses interest in everyone but her. He is now only attracted to her. His choices were what led to his current orientation, just as the choices I made led to my current openness to some roughness during sex.
Originally posted by The MISTER
I don't care about that, I care that you guys were mocking Darkside jedi despite the fact that there is more evidence that she is right. I know that you guys are pretty smart so I was surprised that you dismissed her statements as lunacy all while providing zero evidence to support your claims that choice is not a factor.A man who finds himself attracted to men would be defined as gay according to the definition that Blaxican referred to. This man chooses to ignore that and only date women. He meets a woman that he is stricken by and loses interest in everyone but her. He is now only attracted to her. His choices were what led to his current orientation, just as the choices I made led to my current openness to some roughness during sex.
I'm sorry, you said you have evidence for this?
Originally posted by The MISTERNone of these make a person gay.
Saying "I'm gay" is a choice. Doing anything sexual to someone else or welcoming them to do it to you is a choice. Even secretly masturbating to fantasies of gay sex is a choice.
If a man consistently gets a raging boner at the thought of penis and only penis for his entire life, denying gay sex doesn't make him straight.
Are virgins then entirely without orientation until their first experience, and then forever aimed on one path of sexual preference? Or are they naturally straight, until they deviate by sleeping with someone of a non-opposite gender?
If a woman has sex with a bunch of dudes, and then experiments with another woman, is she now automatically bisexual? Is she mostly straight? Surely all the guys outweigh the one girl.
Originally posted by ExistereYou're quite right it's really a whole lot more complex than just straight, gay , or both. What about the people who get off on objects only? I just think that it's obviously such a complex definition that we should disregard the cut and dry ones and leave it up to the individual to choose how they want to be known.
None of these make a person gay.If a man consistently gets a raging boner at the thought of penis and only penis for his entire life, denying gay sex doesn't make him straight.
Are virgins then entirely without orientation until their first experience, and then forever aimed on one path of sexual preference? Or are they naturally straight, until they deviate by sleeping with someone of a non-opposite gender?
If a woman has sex with a bunch of dudes, and then experiments with another woman, is she now automatically bisexual? Is she mostly straight? Surely all the guys outweigh the one girl.
The point I was making earlier is that preferences can shift due to choices that we make. Why is that something that blows the mind? Your post was really good and does make a good example of how a person's orientation is not set in stone and is just another facet of who they are that is subject to change. Truly people have made bigger changes than from hetero- to bi- and to homosexual and back again.
I didn't start this thread to make it seem as though something is wrong with being a homosexual. I started it because I wondered about a parents role in influencing it. Not many people would argue that they wouldn't encourage their daughters to become hardcore porn stars even if their daughter said that they where sexually drawn to the lifestyle. In fairness that type of choice would also be none of a parents business. That being said how many people would say that a girls childhood more than likely played a part in her considering taking part in a gangbang scene? How quickly do we blame the parents? We surely credit the parents when they cover a childs tuition and they graduate to become successful doctors!
A homosexual lifestyle comes with some of the similar difficulties of a porn stars lifestyle. Simply put, a large amount of people think that it's morally wrong and whether they're right or not, they exist and they can make life more difficult for people. If a parent can play a part one way or the other, then we should stop pretending as though they have no say, when all signs point to them playing a large role in what a child becomes, whatever they become. 😮💨