Originally posted by Bentley
Faulty reasoning. According to you, since DD is on Batman's league, Frank would give Batman a fight, which he'd do, but ultimately he'd be stomped.
Unlike Nightwing who has been shown to be completely unable to lay a finger on Bruce unless he allows it to happen? Frank would give Bruce a better fight than Dick would ever dream of.
Originally posted by Bentley
Grayson has gone against countless of the best trained fighters in the DC universe, he's up there in agility and skill, which are exactly the areas in which Frank is "lacking". Frank does good against "comic" Daredevil, but he'd get beated by forum Matt, because speed and high end radar-sense are powerful together.
And outside of a few instances, every time Dick has fought "the best trained fighters in DC," he's been stomped. Batman. Bane. Shiva. Paper Monkey. They've all stomped him. Dick briefly stalemated Cass once before Alfred interrupted, but that isn't nearly enough to build the foundation of an argument to support the notion that Nightwing has a shot of beating Punisher. . Frank's shows against top tier fighters are more impressive than Grayson's... don't see how anyone could argue otherwise. Grayson isn't Bruce, he doesn't have the credentials or references to support him taking the majority from Punisher. Is Dick more agile and more skilled? Well... he's more agile, but Punisher has dealt with that before, and in an opponent who actually was more skilled as well. Punisher has fought essentially an amalgamation of the best attributes of Grayson and Wayne more than half a dozen times, and while he usually has been out classed in the end, the fights usually last the better part of an issue and he always puts on a hell of a fight. Grayson can't beat Frank in a fight.
Originally posted by Bentley
That said, Frank can get some wins if Grayson is too merciful. But if he fights Punisher as he would Deathstroke, Frank is screwed.
Most of the time Deathstroke beats Dick pretty easily, the rest of the time Dick holds him off briefly, or jack rabbits until Deathstroke decides it's not worth his time and decides to leave... plus outside of his massive advantage in strength and speed, Slade is a pretty abysmal fighter.
Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
yeah this is what people forget about the bat family.. their batsuits are full of kevlar.. all frank will accomplish using his guns would be just wasting bullets.. the batsuit will protect grayson from bullets as well as grayson's agility
Depends. Sometimes their suites can barely hold off gunfire, sometimes, it can tank big explosions.
Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
yeah this is what people forget about the bat family.. their batsuits are full of kevlar.. all frank will accomplish using his guns would be just wasting bullets.. the batsuit will protect grayson from bullets as well as grayson's agility
Interestingly enough I haven't seen it give any added resistance to punches.