Doctor Chanard vs. Pinhead

Originally posted by Steve98732
Well I think Channard wins against a full power Pinhead anyway, since the Dr. was connected directly to Leviathan. (Better weapons, more resistance to cenobite attacks? - passed along maybe from Leviathan to the Dr through the connecting tube?)

Also, there is this, from the Hellraiser wiki:

(When the 3 cenobites fight Dr. Channard:"This meant that they disobeyed the agenda of Hell and could no longer be trusted, thusly, Deepthroat, Butterball, Chatterer and Pinhead were systematically terminated by the Doctor with little difficulty. "😉

So I think if Pinhead was at full power he still would lose, Channard would still ''suffer'' from the cenobite's attacks with some vulnerability, but the Dr. would just counter the chain attacks like before. (And shoot the sticks out of his hand).

Channard wins a simple fight on account of being directly connected to the creator of the cenobites. But in the end it's like ninjak says, they don't die.

Exactly, you said it yourself. The Doctor was Laviathans right hand puppet. Based on this thread. The Doctor is going against Unbound Pinhead. He was far too unstoppable. Pinhead is forever and that's why we saw Pinhead again in later Hellraiser movies and not Doctor Channard?

Pinhead was depowered at the point when the Doctor killed the Cenobites, basically Pinhead betrayed Hell and so did the Cenobites after remembering that they were once human. due to Kistys information. If Pinhead wasn't weakened, no, Doctor Channard would of stood no chance.

Doctor Channard was already in pain while Pinhead started attacking him with 7-8 chains, Pinhead from other movies was able to use more chains and lethal weapons than that, Pinhead seeing he had the doctor in pain at first, you can tell he could of torn the doctor apart, he was just too weak to where he ran out of power to soon.

Also Notice the doctor killed the cenobites and they reverted back to there human form. He sure didn't do that to Pinhead, he had to revert Pinhead back into a human first to kill him because he obviously couldn't kill Pinhead as Pinhead.

Unbound Pinhead was separated from his human form, the doctor would of had no possible way to depower him at that point.

Pinhead stomps Doctor Channard..........so hard....

Also Pinhead can make several dimensions of himself if he wishes... Only Power the doctor showed was shapeshifting into knives, scalples, objects he used as a human doctor.... and the ability to revert Pinhead to human, nothing more... He has no way to revert Pinhead back into a human if he goes against Unbound Pinhead or depower him period.

Even Leviathan would most likely bow down to Unbound Pinhead.

Pinhead could also chain up Doctor Channard sticks if he attemps to use them.

Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Exactly, you said it yourself. The Doctor was Laviathans right hand puppet. Based on this thread. The Doctor is going against Unbound Pinhead. He was far too unstoppable. Pinhead is forever and that's why we saw Pinhead again in later Hellraiser movies and not Doctor Channard?

Pinhead was depowered at the point when the Doctor killed the Cenobites, basically Pinhead betrayed Hell and so did the Cenobites after remembering that they were once human. due to Kistys information. If Pinhead wasn't weakened, no, Doctor Channard would of stood no chance.

Doctor Channard was already in pain while Pinhead started attacking him with 7-8 chains, Pinhead from other movies was able to use more chains and lethal weapons than that, Pinhead seeing he had the doctor in pain at first, you can tell he could of torn the doctor apart, he was just too weak to where he ran out of power to soon.

Also Notice the doctor killed the cenobites and they reverted back to there human form. He sure didn't do that to Pinhead, he had to revert Pinhead back into a human first to kill him because he obviously couldn't kill Pinhead as Pinhead.

Unbound Pinhead was separated from his human form, the doctor would of had no possible way to depower him at that point.

Pinhead stomps Doctor Channard..........so hard....

I've got the four disc set, I've seen Hellraiser and Hellraiser II, but none of the rest. I've seen a few clips of that one with the two cops in it. I'm going to go and watch the third one on DVD in a minute.

''Also Notice the doctor killed the cenobites and they reverted back to there human form. He sure didn't do that to Pinhead, he had to revert Pinhead back into a human first to kill him because he obviously couldn't kill Pinhead as Pinhead.'' <-----That's plausible but couldn't you just as easily say the Dr. did it to humiliate Pinhead, the last one to go, the most important, the leader, etc? Unless of course the movie makers mentioned otherwise. There's no evidence Pinhead wouldn't die with the stick-thing attack. Possible: Dr Channard was sadistic and took pleasure out of watching Pinhead make a last stand in his most vunerable, defenceless form.

Anyway correct me if I'm wrong but this is how the Pinhead-Channard scene happened.

Ahhh good...a fight.
Pinhead points his finger up and commands hooked chains to attack Channard.

Channard breaks the chains and then kills the cenobites, but not Pinhead.

So Pinhead must of been de-powered at the instant he attacked Channard-cenobite, then?

Originally posted by Steve98732
I've got the four disc set, I've seen Hellraiser and Hellraiser II, but none of the rest. I've seen a few clips of that one with the two cops in it. I'm going to go and watch the third one on DVD in a minute.

[B]''Also Notice the doctor killed the cenobites and they reverted back to there human form. He sure didn't do that to Pinhead, he had to revert Pinhead back into a human first to kill him because he obviously couldn't kill Pinhead as Pinhead.'' <-----That's plausible but couldn't you just as easily say the Dr. did it to humiliate Pinhead, the last one to go, the most important, the leader, etc? Unless of course the movie makers mentioned otherwise. There's no evidence Pinhead wouldn't die with the stick-thing attack. Possible: Dr Channard was sadistic and took pleasure out of watching Pinhead make a last stand in his most vunerable, defenceless form.

Anyway correct me if I'm wrong but this is how the Pinhead-Channard scene happened.

Ahhh good...a fight.
Pinhead points his finger up and commands hooked chains to attack Channard.

Channard breaks the chains and then kills the cenobites, but not Pinhead.

So Pinhead must of been de-powered at the instant he attacked Channard-cenobite, then? [/B]

I highly recommend you watch Hellraiser 3 because that's when Pinhead was Unbounded. He was separated from his human form...... I wont go further because I will spoil it for you, but I will tell you, Pinhead is far more powerful, far greater and far more powerful in Hellraiser 3 than he was in 1 and 2...

So the doctor reverting Pinhead to a human first to kill him was a way to humiliate him? I have to disagree. No the movie makers I am not sure confirmed Channard had to revert Pinhead to human to kill him, but I go by what has to be shown.... The doctor has to prove he can kill Pinhead in his Cenobite form with the stick by doing so like he did to the other Cenobites to prove he can kill Pinhead as Pinhead, but because he didn't and reverted Pinhead back to his human form, I am assuming he could only kill Pinhead as a human... I wouldn't even think Pinhead would have to be unbound to defeat the doctor, Pinhead from Hellraiser 1 would of tore his ass up.... Pinhead at full power used a lot more chains to kill Frank than he used on the Doctor and all those chains he used on Frank would be enough to not only to Hook through Channard's hands ( Which should block him from using those extra arms he had in his hand ) but, in HR 1 Pinhead had enough chains to completely destroy Channard.... Pinhead proved he was able to put him in pain for just a bit, all those chains from Hellraiser 1 would most likely kill Channard.

Anyways yes, I highly recommend watching Hellraiser 3... If you still think Channard could beat Pinhead from at full power from Hellraiser 1, then I recommend watching Hellraiser 3 when he was unbound and please tell me who would win then.... Only hint I will give you is, Pinhead was able to reality warp a city and could make deminsions of himself and turn other humans into Cenobites....He was pure evil and unstoppable until he got reunited with his human form.

Yes Pinhead was obviously weakened when he attacked Channard with the chains. He only used like I said 6-7 chains. Didn't he use more chains than that to kill Frank in the first film?

Yes the doctor killed the cenobites, but when he killed them he did it in there cenobite form and when they died they reverted back to there human forms. I am assuming if the Doctor could kill Pinhead in his cenobite form, then he would of done it, but instead has to revert him back into his human form first. I also think it sucked we didn't see the other cenobites after hellraiser 2...

Plus Doctor Channard was getting too overpowered in the movie, I can see why Leviathan allowed him to be outsmarted by two girls. He was just getting too overpowered and that's why Pinhead took his spot after Hellraiser 2.

Pinhead w

Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Yes Pinhead was obviously weakened when he attacked Channard with the chains. He only used like I said 6-7 chains. Didn't he use more chains than that to kill Frank in the first film?

Yes the doctor killed the cenobites, but when he killed them he did it in there cenobite form and when they died they reverted back to there human forms. I am assuming if the Doctor could kill Pinhead in his cenobite form, then he would of done it, but instead has to revert him back into his human form first. I also think it sucked we didn't see the other cenobites after hellraiser 2...

Plus Doctor Channard was getting too overpowered in the movie, I can see why Leviathan allowed him to be outsmarted by two girls. He was just getting too overpowered and that's why Pinhead took his spot after Hellraiser 2.

Ok so Hellraiser is partly about a box, the Lament configuration, which is like a rubik's cube from hell. Some people play around with it and the ones who ''desire'' to know about what is inside, and/or are a bit weird get sucked in to the hell/cenobite /pain/suffering for eternity thing and usually end up a cenobite themselves.

If the cenobites enforce the will of Leviathan, choice or not, why or how could they get ''too overpowered''? Too much suffering, too much killing, etc, I don't understand.

Cheers.

Originally posted by Steve98732
Ok so Hellraiser is partly about a box, the Lament configuration, which is like a rubik's cube from hell. Some people play around with it and the ones who ''desire'' to know about what is inside, and/or are a bit weird get sucked in to the hell/cenobite /pain/suffering for eternity thing and usually end up a cenobite themselves.

If the cenobites enforce the will of Leviathan, choice or not, why or how could they get ''too overpowered''? Too much suffering, too much killing, etc, I don't understand.

Cheers.

What cube are you referring to? The one where Pinhead and the others were in at the end of Hellraiser 2? Which was also in Hellraiser 3 and Pinhead had to absorb 2 bodies of flesh to get out?

The Doctor got overpowered and your statements proved it. Like saying he was connected to Leviathan... Which is the argument to him winning pretty much proves it however, Pinhead was way too overpowered in Hellraiser 3 until reunited with his human form. even then, Pinhead just seem'd more evil than he was in Hellraiser 1 and 2. since you said you saw parts of Bloodline where he turned the two cops into cenobites, you should know, Pinheads became more evil and more powerful....As far as the doctor goes, I guess him getting more overrated in Hellraiser 2 was a better way to put it.

Another thing that gets me is. Notice when the doctor fought the Cenobites, Pinhead was the only Cenobite who even did anything? The others just stood there? You know what I call that? Bad writing.... The writers couldn't even power up the other cenobites to a various degree.

this whole topic reeks of ignorance. pinhead and chanard were both puppets of leviathan, as were all the cenobytes.

when pinhead regained his memory, he lost his power because leviathan stripped him of it (in quite an illustrated fashion as leviathan/chanard visually zapped it out of him). while it made no sense that he still had use of the chains, i like to think that leviathan allowed him that limited power just to give him false hope to further torment and punish him.

either way, as cenobytes they were drones with no will of their own, so it would essentially be leviathan vs leviathan, which is a nonsensical tourist versus topic.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
when pinhead regained his memory, he lost his power because leviathan stripped him of it (in quite an illustrated fashion as leviathan/chanard visually zapped it out of him). while it made no sense that he still had use of the chains, i like to think that leviathan allowed him that limited power just to give him false hope to further torment and punish him.

Don't you feel you're stretching things a bit much, here?

oh great. is it already time for me to be blown away by your wikipedia skills?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
oh great. is it already time for me to be blown away by your wikipedia skills?

So you don't have anything from Hellraiser II to back up your statement (which you contradict even in your own post)? Just petty insults?

if you have grounds to disagree, then state it.

you and i know that you don't, so why don't you just go away.

i'm tired of humiliating you, dadudemon. it bores me.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
if you have grounds to disagree, then state it.

you and i know that you don't, so why don't you just go away.

i'm tired of humiliating you, dadudemon. it bores me.

he lost his power because leviathan stripped him of it (in quite an illustrated fashion as leviathan/chanard visually zapped it out of him). while it made no sense that he still had use of the chains,

...and you disagree because _______________________.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
...and you disagree because _______________________.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Don't you feel you're stretching things a bit much, here?

Originally posted by dadudemon
you don't have anything from Hellraiser II to back up your statement (which you contradict even in your own post)?

...and i'm 'stretching it'/wrong because ______________.

You have to go by what happened in the movie, which means you can interpret several events in it, in different ways. There is only so much shown, so people can debate and put there opinions out. Pinhead commits the sin of remembrance, goes against one of the codes of hell, breaks a rule, etc. Channard-Cenobite is not "good". He is: sadistic, manipulative, evil, murderous. And he is looking forward to a fight.

The cenobites stand around surprised and a bit gormless after Dr.Channard disables the chains. Pinhead broke a rule, so his chain attack became weaker; the number of chains and the amount of pain the attack inflicted on another cenobite. Or: Channard-cenobite shrugged off the attack on account of being a better more powerful cenobite.

Conclusion:The lead cenobite went rogue, then a cenobite which is directly connected to the creator of the cenobites comes along and kills them when they are fighting underpowered.

Bonus: The other cenobites stood around because they were too sh*t scared to do anything.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
...and you disagree because _______________________.

It's okay: we both knew you stretched the truth a bit. Or else you'd stop dodging?

Edit - I mean, the new guy seems to get it. Funny that it seems to be "going" over your head? 😉