Doctor Chanard vs. Pinhead

it wasnt a "sin". leviathan's control over him was severed and thus so was his power. chanard made it clear in that short ass-whooping that leviathan called the shots.

pinhead's chains were just a gimmick compared to his real ability under leviathan: controlling inter-dimensional portals to hell (for lack of a better term). thats why when he showed up, everything in that location got dark and shifted into f***ed up mode with doors to hell popping out of nowhere. (where do you think those chains were shooting out from, after all?) thats why i maintain my theory that leviathan was toying with pinhead by allowing him his futile chain attack. otherwise it makes little sense at all that he was able to do even that.

the number of chains was irrelevant. how do you torture a demon who orgasms from pain? how do you use the power of leviathan to hurt leviathan? thats why the chains were useless.

there were no scared cenobytes in that room, because they too were no longer cenobytes. they were the people whom they once were, with their memories restored. thats why they were so easily killed off. they had no power. leviathan was the puppet master.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's okay: we both knew you stretched the truth a bit. Or else you'd stop dodging?

Edit - I mean, the new guy seems to get it. Funny that it seems to be "going" over your head? 😉

another empty non-retort.

you're just making a try-hard tourist ass out of yourself as per your M.O.

your whole schtick is weak and lame...and very very boring.

Well man that's the best reply to this thread pretty much, like you said ''the number of chains was irrelevant. how do you torture a demon who orgasms from pain? how do you use the power of leviathan to hurt leviathan?''

From a movie POV though I the whole idea of Channard is obvious. To provide us with an opposite to the already established cenobites. Channard-cenobite was new, had different weapons, was a doctor or surgeon who had experience in the flesh and had a dark side to his nature, so was a classic perfect candidate. He was also distinct because he was connected to Levianthan.

The sin part though, didn't the filmmakers say it was the sin of remembrance? Which means it has to be factual and not opinion.

That part where Channard says ah good...a fight and the subtle music that plays over (the dark ''bong'' sounds) is one of my favorite scenes in the movie, perfect, I really get the sense that there is going to be a conflict, the big bad boss cenobite vs the regular cenobites.

they may have used the term "sin of remembrance". i never heard it used but i'll take your word for it. i think the film illustrates more of a 'consequence of forgetfullness' since all their love for pain and immortality as demons was suddenly gone. (thus pinheads 'reeducation" in that final scene as he's being tortured).

the point i'm making is that it seems that his remembering cancelled out his status as a cenobyte by default, as with his minions, before chanard even showed up. my reasoning is that while chanard turned pinhead's form back to his original self, the others were still in cenobyte-form, yet clearly mortal as they were killed off easily via impalement.

there is so much of that film left to interpretation though so there is no final answer. however one thing is clear: the demon pinhead was a drone servant of leviathan as was chanard. both their jobs was to torture souls (and retrieve the occasional escape convict). so this topic presents the scenario of two pain-loving immortal demons torturing eachother. i guess the 'winner' would be 'who orgasms last'

Originally posted by focus4chumps
another empty non-retort.

you're just making a try-hard tourist ass out of yourself as per your M.O.

your whole schtick is weak and lame...and very very boring.

K.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
it wasnt a "sin". leviathan's control over him was severed and thus so was his power. chanard made it clear in that short ass-whooping that leviathan called the shots.

pinhead's chains were just a gimmick compared to his real ability under leviathan: controlling inter-dimensional portals to hell (for lack of a better term). thats why when he showed up, everything in that location got dark and shifted into f***ed up mode with doors to hell popping out of nowhere. (where do you think those chains were shooting out from, after all?) thats why i maintain my theory that leviathan was toying with pinhead by allowing him his futile chain attack. otherwise it makes little sense at all that he was able to do even that.

the number of chains was irrelevant. how do you torture a demon who orgasms from pain? how do you use the power of leviathan to hurt leviathan? thats why the chains were useless.

there were no scared cenobytes in that room, because they too were no longer cenobytes. they were the people whom they once were, with their memories restored. thats why they were so easily killed off. they had no power. leviathan was the puppet master.

another empty non-retort.

you're just making a try-hard tourist ass out of yourself as per your M.O.

your whole schtick is weak and lame...and very very boring.

I love your details you have given. I did clearly say that doctor was nothing more than leviathans puppet or something along the lines so it would make sense that Leviathan was the one toying with him by manipulating the doctor... Not to mention Leviathan is the only one who can actually kill or depower Pinhead.

That Doctor going against Unbound Pinhead is what I wanna see. Because didn't Pinhead never use those powers in 1 and 2 as he did in 3 for the fact he had to follow the rules of hell, but when he was unbound he didn't have to follow any rules and could do anything he wanted? I believe so....

Originally posted by focus4chumps
this whole topic reeks of ignorance. pinhead and chanard were both puppets of leviathan, as were all the cenobytes.

when pinhead regained his memory, he lost his power because leviathan stripped him of it (in quite an illustrated fashion as leviathan/chanard visually zapped it out of him). while it made no sense that he still had use of the chains, i like to think that leviathan allowed him that limited power just to give him false hope to further torment and punish him.

either way, as cenobytes they were drones with no will of their own, so it would essentially be leviathan vs leviathan, which is a nonsensical tourist versus topic.

See you just said and made the same point as I did. Pinhead was stripped of most of his powers when remembering when he was a human in the Bristish World War 1... In other words the doctor went against a depower Pinhead..... but, guess what?

Pinhead from Hellraiser 1 would of smacked the shit out of the doctor and chains him up with far more chains and tore his ass apart.....

Originally posted by Steve98732
You have to go by what happened in the movie, which means you can interpret several events in it, in different ways. There is only so much shown, so people can debate and put there opinions out. Pinhead commits the sin of remembrance, goes against one of the codes of hell, breaks a rule, etc. Channard-Cenobite is not "good". He is: sadistic, manipulative, evil, murderous. And he is looking forward to a fight.

The cenobites stand around surprised and a bit gormless after Dr.Channard disables the chains. Pinhead broke a rule, so his chain attack became weaker; the number of chains and the amount of pain the attack inflicted on another cenobite. Or: Channard-cenobite shrugged off the attack on account of being a better more powerful cenobite.

Conclusion:The lead cenobite went rogue, then a cenobite which is directly connected to the creator of the cenobites comes along and kills them when they are fighting underpowered.

Bonus: The other cenobites stood around because they were too sh*t scared to do anything.

The thing that confuses me about the doctor is, he knew who Tiffany was when he started seeing her in his cenobite form. and he was also her doctor when he was a human...so didn't he also commit the sin of rememberance too? Yet was still overly powered when compared to Pinhead after pinheads rememberance?

Like I said, it was bad writing... I still enjoyed the movie, but that's why its not as good as the first....there were some bad errors the writers could of twisted around and made it better.

Leviathan could of resurrected Pinhead after he got his throat cut and went for round 2... Doctor Channard ( Depowered ) goes against a full power pinhead.

Pinhead rips his soul apart with dozens of chains.

my point was that both chanard and pinhead were invulnerable, barring a mortal solving the puzzle cube, it's a stalemate. not only stalemate but a laughable one since both enjoy pain and suffering.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
my point was that both chanard and pinhead were invulnerable, barring a mortal solving the puzzle cube, it's a stalemate. not only stalemate but a laughable one since both enjoy pain and suffering.

Sir, I don't care what your opinion is. especially since it's not even fact. Channard went against a depowered Pinhead. And Pinhead had the doctor screaming for a bit until Pinhead ran out of power and due to less amound of chains used, I can see why the doctor broke free with his extra arms.... Full Powered Pinhead would of chained all of the doctors arms, legs and even his face and tore his ass apart. If it wasn't for Pinheads humanity rememberance, the doctor would of never of been able to lay finger on Pinhead or his Cenobite crew.

If you think the doctor stomps or this is a stalemate, you're in fact wrong.......hush ur face.......

Pinhead stomps Doctor Channard..............so hard.....

nope. pinhead was only "stomped" because he was not pinhead. he was elliott spencer and thus had mortal vulnerability. as demons though, they are immortal. even when 'killed' with the puzzle box they are simply being sent back to hell. sorry but your whole portrayal of events is comic book action wankery and totally misses the heart of clive barker's mythos.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
nope. pinhead was only "stomped" because he was not pinhead. he was elliott spencer and thus had mortal vulnerability. as demons though, they are immortal. even when 'killed' with the puzzle box they are simply being sent back to hell. sorry but your whole portrayal of events is comic book action wankery and totally misses the heart of clive barker's mythos.

Pinhead was the only Cenobite reverted back into his human form. Doctor Channard killed Female-Cenobite, Chatterbox and Butter ball in there Cenobite form after stabbing them and when they died, they reverted back into there human form. He didn't do that to Pinhead and you're very right, Doctor Channard had to revert him back into Elliot Spencer first because he obviously couldn't kill Pinhead in his Cenobite form...... I am talking about Pinheads powers being stripped from him right before he was reverted back into his human form.... And no, I didn't get any of this info from a comic. I've never read a Hellraiser comic a day in my life....I only have 9 of the movies....... That's why Pinheads been bck in 7 films afterwards and we never saw the doctor ever again.....ahhahahaahahahahahahaha

Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Pinhead was the only Cenobite reverted back into his human form. Doctor Channard killed Female-Cenobite, Chatterbox and Butter ball in there Cenobite form after stabbing them and when they died, they reverted back into there human form. He didn't do that to Pinhead and you're very right, Doctor Channard had to revert him back into Elliot Spencer first because he obviously couldn't kill Pinhead in his Cenobite form...... I am talking about Pinheads powers being stripped from him right before he was reverted back into his human form.... And no, I didn't get any of this info from a comic. I've never read a Hellraiser comic a day in my life....I only have 9 of the movies....... That's why Pinheads been bck in 7 films afterwards and we never saw the doctor ever again.....ahhahahaahahahahahahaha

as we both said, the cenobytes were killed by simple impalement. they were no longer immortal when they remembered their true selves, divorced from the power of hell/leviathan.

the reason we dont see chanard was because doug bradley was the star of the series, and the only reason people returned to the theaters to see every godawful campy sequel after HR2. it would make no sense to shoehorn chanard into a new plot.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
as we both said, the cenobytes were killed by simple impalement. they were no longer immortal when they remembered their true selves, divorced from the power of hell/leviathan.

the reason we dont see chanard was because doug bradley was the star of the series, and the only reason people returned to the theaters to see every godawful campy sequel after HR2. it would make no sense to shoehorn chanard into a new plot.

Sir this has nothing to do with Doug Bradley being the main villain, we are talking plot wise.....are you really this dumb? Doctor Channard got outsmarted by two girls... That never would happen to Pinhead.

Didn't Doctor Channard also commit the sin of rememberance when he knew who Tiffany was in his Cenobite form and considering he was also her doctor when he was a human and yet he wasn't depowered at all and yet Pinhead and the rest of the Cenobites were after the sin of rememberance? Yeah I guess that's what you call bad writing....That's why Hellraiser 2 wont ever be as good as Hellraiser 1.

Pinhead from Hellraiser 1 would shred Doctor Channard...

Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Sir this has nothing to do with Doug Bradley being the main villain, we are talking plot wise.....are you really this dumb? Doctor Channard got outsmarted by two girls... That never would happen to Pinhead.

you are trying to suggest that chanard not being written into future plotlines is proof that he was weaker, which is abysmally asinine

Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Didn't Doctor Channard also commit the sin of rememberance when he knew who Tiffany was in his Cenobite form and considering he was also her doctor when he was a human and yet he wasn't depowered at all and yet Pinhead and the rest of the Cenobites were after the sin of rememberance? Yeah I guess that's what you call bad writing....That's why Hellraiser 2 wont ever be as good as Hellraiser 1.

bad fanfic. kirsty just rekindled his lust for julia and distracted him while tiffany solved the puzzle cube, which made him vulnerable.

Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Pinhead from Hellraiser 1 would shred Doctor Channard...

quanchi for sure

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you are trying to suggest that chanard not being written into future plotlines is proof that he was weaker, which is abysmally asinine

bad fanfic. kirsty just rekindled his lust for julia and distracted him while tiffany solved the puzzle cube, which made him vulnerable.

quanchi for sure

Did you honestly say Chanard was invulnerable to damage ? Hahahahahahahahah. We see Pinhead hurt him and Kirsty later responsible for the dumbass beheading himself. Pinhead is the only one who can lay claim to invulnerability of these two.

The only reason he defeated Pinhead was due to the fact he had been spiritually weakened right before they fought. Leviathan gave them all powers but that doesn't mean they can't go undermine and oppose each other.

Pinhead absolutely wins.

chanard was weakened because tiffany solved the puzzle cube, just like pinhead was defeated in hellraiser 1 (overpowered by a little girl, making kirsty the ultimate cenobyte, if we go by your painfully stupid interpretation of events).

stick to debating your simple-simon popcorn comic book action flicks since you obviously have no grasp of clive barker's story. also pick an account and stick with it.

buh bye

Originally posted by focus4chumps
chanard was weakened because tiffany solved the puzzle cube, just like pinhead was defeated in hellraiser 1 (overpowered by a little girl, making kirsty the ultimate cenobyte, if we go by your painfully stupid interpretation of events).

stick to debating your simple-simon popcorn comic book action flicks since you obviously have no grasp of clive barker's story. also pick an account and stick with it.

buh bye

What I say is backed by the films director what you say isn't backed by anything resembling logic.

Originally posted by focus4chumps