Originally posted by Galan007
Judging by the extreme ease in which he bested Dooku in RotS, I'd say so.
Nah! Dooku would Manhandle him with the Force, just like he did to Obi-Wan, Savage, Ventress e.t.c none of whom Anakin has proven himself superior to in the Force department.
As for this fight if its CW Anakin then either member of team 1 can solo.. If its ROTS Anakin at his peak, then there will be no soloing, but team 1 still takes it.
Originally posted by Galan007
This isn't just a force battle.
Nor were any of those fights I mentioned, but Dooku still manhandled them with the Force. He didn't get a chance to do that to ROTS Anakin, becaue it started off 2 on 1 and then Skywalker jumped at him when Dooku just disposed of Kenobi.
But one on one with no Kenobi there? I reckon Dooku could just go all out with the Force, and do the same sort of thing he did to Kenobi, or keep him at bay with his FL like he did Savage(someone with much greater physical strength).
I mean heck if Ventress can Force choke him, Id hate to think what Dooku could do to him if he went all out with his Force powers.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERIf "t3h z0n3" Anakin has a lightsaber, Dooku is not beating him. The RotS film and novelization made that clear.
Nor were any of those fights I mentioned, but Dooku still manhandled them with the Force. He didn't get a chance to do that to ROTS Anakin, becaue it started off 2 on 1 and then Skywalker jumped at him when Dooku just disposed of Kenobi.But one on one with no Kenobi there? I reckon Dooku could just go all out with the Force, and do the same sort of thing he did to Kenobi, or keep him at bay with his FL like he did Savage(someone with much greater physical strength).
I mean heck if Ventress can Force choke him, Id hate to think what Dooku could do to him if he went all out with his Force powers.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Nah! Dooku would Manhandle him with the Force, just like he did to Obi-Wan, Savage, Ventress e.t.c none of whom Anakin has proven himself superior to in the Force department.As for this fight if its CW Anakin then either member of team 1 can solo.. If its ROTS Anakin at his peak, then there will be no soloing, but team 1 still takes it.
Dooku would manhandle "Zone" Anakin? Don't see that happening DP.
Originally posted by ares834
The novel makes it clear that Dooku's mastery of the force was useless against Anakin... If Anakin is in TEH Z0nE Dooku is not taking him out by himself.
This is silly, considering Dooku doesn't offensively use the Force against Anakin in the battle. Both times he uses it, he takes out Kenobi.
Royally pissed off Anakin = Obi-Wan in Force powers, since they stalemated each other. Obi-Wan has never been shown to match up to Dooku in that manner, and neither has Anakin. Additionally, Yoda cites Dooku as being head and shoulders above all other Jedi in the Force. Dooku > Anakin by virtue of superior knowledge of the Force and mastery.
If Dooku chooses to deploy the Force, no one here can stand up to him. So the question becomes can Ventress and Anakin defeat Opress quick enough to doubleteam Dooku?
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This is silly, considering Dooku doesn't offensively use the Force against Anakin in the battle. Both times he uses it, he takes out Kenobi.
Doesn't matter if you think it's "silly", it's canon. Dooku's knowledge of the Force was a joke when he fought Anakin.
Royally pissed off Anakin = Obi-Wan in Force powers, since they stalemated each other. Obi-Wan has never been shown to match up to Dooku in that manner, and neither has Anakin.
Is there any evidence that "royally pissed off" Anakin is the same as in TEH Z0nE Anakin? Nope.
Additionally, Yoda cites Dooku as being head and shoulders above all other Jedi in the Force. Dooku > Anakin by virtue of superior knowledge of the Force and mastery.
Mace Windu cites Anakin as the most powerful Jed in RotS... Clearly what characters say about one another isn't alway infalliable.
If Dooku chooses to deploy the Force, no one here can stand up to him.
Anakin could.
Originally posted by ares834
Doesn't matter if you think it's "silly", it's canon. Dooku's knowledge of the Force was a joke when he fought Anakin.
The movie version of the fight doesn't show Dooku using the Force against Anakin. Why would I believe that the novelization - which already has tons of examples of fights being completely and totally wrong compared to the highest canon source - is correct in this? He didn't use the Force on Anakin. Duh.
Is there any evidence that "royally pissed off" Anakin is the same as in TEH Z0nE Anakin? Nope.
Substantiate the difference? Where did "in teh zone" term come from? The novelization? The same one that shows Kit Fisto's head on a desk?
Mace Windu cites Anakin as the most powerful Jed in RotS... Clearly what characters say about one another isn't alway infalliable.
When is this now? And Yoda has a thousand years of practical experience. I'd say he's a fairly good in-universe source.
Anakin could.
When did Anakin defend against a Force user of Dooku's level? Other people would include defending against Yoda, Mace, and Sidious. Please, tell me.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
[B]The movie version of the fight doesn't show Dooku using the Force against Anakin. Why would I believe that the novelization - which already has tons of examples of fights being completely and totally wrong compared to the highest canon source - is correct in this? He didn't use the Force on Anakin. Duh.
Or one can realize that there is a reason that Dooku didn't use the Force on Anakin... Namely because he realized he couldn't, which is what the RotS novel says.
Substantiate the difference? Where did "in teh zone" term come from? The novelization?
You know... The Anakin who let go off all restraint and made Dooku look like a red headed stepchild. The one that originates from a G-canon source called the RotS novelization.
The same one that shows Kit Fisto's head on a desk?
Oh so because there are a couple contradictions the source becomes entirely unreliable. I guess almost everything should be thrown out eh?
When is this now? And Yoda has a thousand years of practical experience. I'd say he's a fairly good in-universe source.
In the RotS novel. Mace Windu claims that Anakin is arguably the most powerful Jedi ever. And yes I agree that Yoda is reliable, but when he talks about Dooku in DR he is clearly not entirely correct. Afterall Yoda is superior to Dooku.
I would never state that Anakin could best Dooku in a pure force duel, however Dooku won't be able to rag doll an in TEH Z0nE Anakin effortlessly either.
When did Anakin defend against a Force user of Dooku's level? Other people would include defending against Yoda, Mace, and Sidious. Please, tell me.
In RotS of course. Dooku's "knowledge of the force was a joke."
But furthermore I would turn you toward the Clone wars. In the movie, which takes place shortly after AotC, Anakin manages to fair quite well agianst the Count even though the former is using his force powers. Ultimately the fight ends with Anakin kicking Dooku on to his ass and leaving to rescue Ahsoka.
It's safe to assume there is a pretty vast difference between the Anakin who easily trounced Dooku, and the Anakin who stalemated Kenobi.
After all, Dooku was able to easily best Kenobi, and Anakin was able to easily best Dooku - ie. "t3h z0n3" Anakin > Dooku >> Kenobi. So either Kenobi's overall skills grew astronomically between the beginning and end of RotS, or Anakin simply wasn't fighting to the best of his ability on Mustafar. You pick.
Advent was the one, I believe, who pointed out the psychological state Vader was in on Mustafar as opposed to the duel with Dooku. In the film, he's visibly struggling with the ramification of his actions since Windu's death (this is supported by George's commentary that he knew what he was doing was wrong, but he felt obligated to continue if he was to save Padmé). His perceived betrayal by her at the hands of his best friend quite obviously pissed him off beyond words, but that's different from that cold clarity he had while fighting the Count.
Originally posted by Galan007
It's safe to assume there is a pretty vast difference between the Anakin who easily trounced Dooku, and the Anakin who stalemated Kenobi.After all, Dooku was able to easily best Kenobi, and Anakin was able to easily best Dooku - ie. "t3h z0n3" Anakin > Dooku >> Kenobi. So either Kenobi's overall skills grew astronomically between the beginning and end of RotS, or Anakin simply wasn't fighting to the best of his ability on Mustafar. You pick.
This is exactly why A>B>C doesnt work. I really dnt see any version of Anakin defeating Kenobi any where near as easily as Dooku trounced him.
Dooku was >>> Kenobi because of how vastly superior he was in the Force.. Anakin > Dooku because Dooku could not handle his tremendous raw power in a sword fight and as per the film did not get a chance to use the Force on him after Anakin was all over him. Kenobi =/> Anakin because his defensive style was more able to handle Anakin's onslought giving him time to outsmart him.
Which is why I still think give Dooku a chance to go all out with the Force on ROTS Anakin, and yeah he can defeat him, but yeah with difficulty.
Just look at the Dooku vs Savage fight. Savage actually physically overpowered Dooku in the up close fight, but still Dooku put him down with his FL, a guy whose much stronger (physically) than ROTS Anakin.
Also look at Ventress. She's never beaten Anakin in a sword fight, but when she was disarmed, and had a chance to go all out with the Force she was able to Force choke Anakin (and Obi-Wan). Who would have guessed she could do that??