Originally posted by ares834
In the RotS novel. Mace Windu claims that Anakin is arguably the most powerful Jedi ever. And yes I agree that Yoda is reliable, but when he talks about Dooku in DR he is clearly not entirely correct. Afterall Yoda is superior to Dooku.
Im guessing Yoda looking at all the other jedis as the students of the temple, and himself the teacher. Its been a long long long time since he was a student. And it was kind of a given he wasnt including himself.
tj
I've never agreed with that. Both times were times he gave in to his anger.
For Anakin, the means by which to access his power doesn't seem to be just sheer rage. Consider his ability to tame the Force wielders on Mortis, which was done in a moment of clarity, similar to the state of mind Anakin was in in Stover's novelization.
I believe the power gap between someone like Dooku and Kenobi is so intense that if it was simply anger that enabled Anakin to best the Count, Kenobi would have been slaughtered under similar circumstances. Experience and training be damned.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERReally? So your opinion is that "t3h z0n3" Anakin would have been unable to defeat Kenobi (or had a hard time doing so), despite the casual ease in which he bested Dooku (who had effortlessly trounced Kenobi just beforehand?) I couldn't disagree more.
This is exactly why A>B>C doesnt work. I really dnt see any version of Anakin defeating Kenobi any where near as easily as Dooku trounced him.
The difference in demeanor/mentality/emotional stability between "t3h z0n3" Anakin and Mustafar Anakin, was obvious. Ergo, if Anakin wouldn't have been an emotional train wreck when he fought Kenobi, the outcome would have been much different.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERYou realize Dooku could sense Anakin's raw power the entire time, right?
Still I think it would be interesting to see a one on one fight between the Count and ROTS Anakin where Dooku is fully aware of the raw power at Anakin's disposal
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Substantiate the difference? Where did "in teh zone" term come from? The novelization? The same one that shows Kit Fisto's head on a desk?
It's a reference to the last part of the duel in the novelization, in which Anakin, utilizing the dark side, sets a nice portion of his potential free, which in turn renders Dooku's superior training and experience moot and enables Anakin to defeat the Sith Lord.
But, technically, this should enable "in the zone" Anakin to simple steamroll every other character in the SW universe, kind of making it moot to use him in VS setups.
Originally posted by BorbaradThat's kind of where I was conflicted as well. It's my opinion that you could put pretty much anyone in front of "t3h z0n3" Anakin, and he'd beat them. So when someone puts "RotS Anakin" in a versus thread, without specifying which version/mindset is to be used, then which should we go to by default? Should we use the God-like Anakin who trounced Dooku with ease, or the drastically watered down Anakin who barely managed to stalemate Kenobi? There's really not too much of a gray/neutral area with him, lol.
But, technically, this should enable "in the zone" Anakin to simple steamroll every other character in the SW universe, kind of making it moot to use him in VS setups.
Originally posted by Galan007
Really? So your opinion is that "t3h z0n3" Anakin would have been unable to defeat Kenobi (or had a hard time doing so), despite the casual ease in which he bested Dooku (who had effortlessly trounced Kenobi just beforehand?) I couldn't disagree more.
Not exactly what I said. I said I dnt see ROTS Anakin defeating Obi-Wan "anywhere near es easily" as Dooku did. That was with casual ease. That doesnt mean im saying ROTS Anakin would be "unable" to defeat Obi-Wan or even have a particularly tough time doing so.
The ease Dooku bested Obi-Wan with shows Dooku could probably have defeated 2 ROTS Kenobi's, without a scratch to show for it. Could you really say the same about ROTS Anakin??
Also you keep missing the fact that Dooku did not effortlessly best Kenobi in Sabers.. He bested him effortlessly with the Force, whilst ROTS Anakin bested Dooku in Sabers.
Originally posted by Galan007
You realize Dooku could sense Anakin's raw power the entire time, right?
Not the enitre time. He was slowly realising as the fight went on.
Originally posted by Galan007
It's my opinion that you could put pretty much anyone in front of "t3h z0n3" Anakin, and he'd beat them.
Problem I have is if this is true then why did Lucas say "you have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emporer" ???
Originally posted by RagingBoner
You really made an important observation: We only see Anakin fight once in the movie as Anakin.
True but if this is the version we use, it should be noted it took him time to become his uber self in that fight. That would be a big factor in any versus thread.
Galan007
That's kind of where I was conflicted as well. It's my opinion that you could put pretty much anyone in front of "t3h z0n3" Anakin, and he'd beat them. So when someone puts "RotS Anakin" in a versus thread, without specifying which version/mindset is to be used, then which should we go to by default? Should we use the God-like Anakin who trounced Dooku with ease, or the drastically watered down Anakin who barely managed to stalemate Kenobi? There's really not too much of a gray/neutral area with him, lol.
The balanced default would simply be Anakin as he been just prior to cutting loose. He is distracted by the conflict within, but even then indisputably formidable: relentless, enormously powerful, and literally tireless.
Indeed, I think it could be argued that the red-hot Darth Vader we see in the final act of Revenge of the Sith is, relatively speaking, Skywalker at his least capable. My recollection of the novelization lends itself to this interpretation as well, although I'll know as soon as I get to the rest of it later today.
EDIT: Also, Needa cameo is cool on multiple levels.
Originally posted by Eminence
Engrossed in a PDF of the novelization as I currently am, I'm finding that I truly appreciate Stover's [numerous] metaphors about Anakin's fear and power and how they all come together to illustrate vividly just what's going on in his head and his heart. Per Stover, Anakin carries in himself a nuclear furnace that he has spent years struggling to keep contained, banked by walls of will fortified by his Jedi training. That struggle is only a partial success; smoke from that "smothered heart" fills his mind with clouds and thunder. When he finally lets those walls collapse and that furnace burns freely, all of that disappears, the crippling terror and mindless rage giving way to a focused fury that makes him unstoppable.The balanced default would simply be Anakin as he been just prior to cutting loose. He is distracted by the conflict within, but even then indisputably formidable: relentless, enormously powerful, and literally tireless.
Indeed, I think it could be argued that the red-hot Darth Vader we see in the final act of Revenge of the Sith is, relatively speaking, Skywalker at his least capable. My recollection of the novelization lends itself to this interpretation as well, although I'll know as soon as I get to the rest of it later today.
Do you also appreciate how Palpatine is smarter, sexier, and better than everyone?
Anakin is far sexier. He is dashing, lean, and funny. Obi-Wan impersonation brought a smile to my face.
Honestly, reading through this book now I don't think I've ever actually read it before. They're all such better characters on paper than they got a chance to be on screen.
Now edit your post to acknowledge the brilliance of Needa's inclusion in the opening battle.
Eminence
Anakin is far sexier. He is dashing, lean, and funny. Obi-Wan impersonation brought a smile to my face.Honestly, reading through this book now I don't think I've ever actually read it before. They're all such better characters on paper than they got a chance to be on screen.
Now edit your post to acknowledge the brilliance of Needa's inclusion in the opening battle.
Take note of how terrifying General Grievous is as opposed to the film and series versions.
Take note of how terrifying he is in this picture.
And by "series" I hope you aren't including Tartakovsky's Clone Wars. He was a demon in that, perhaps excessively so on the physical front but a truly threatening presence nonetheless.
Also, an awesome Darth Vader.