Is Thor the best?

The speed thing is like saying that Superman loses his magic and Kryptonite weakness PC. Stat-wise barring weaknesses Supes is top-notch in most areas sans energy projection. He's done more with brute strength more often than just about anyone a person could care to name to abstract concepts or energy than some energy manipulators have.

I know I'm going to get called fanboy on this but taking away superman's weaknesses and stupidly retarded losses makes him the single most powerful "herald" level character I've seen. He's toppled Gods in the skyfather tier and destroyed beings capable of wiping the universe/multiverse. Superman answers the call in comics to combat some of the strongest threats in the multiverse where others fail. He's done this often enough that it can't be called PIS. However I do concede the number of his feats that are far lower than this are more common but he IS the hero DC tends to go to for indomitable foes.

Anyways Thor clears the list mostly on account of Mjolnir more than his own skills and he has to use his less frequently used powers to do it.

Originally posted by Uriel005
The speed thing is like saying that Superman loses his magic and Kryptonite weakness PC. Stat-wise barring weaknesses Supes is top-notch in most areas sans energy projection. He's done more with brute strength more often than just about anyone a person could care to name to abstract concepts or energy than some energy manipulators have.

I know I'm going to get called fanboy on this but taking away superman's weaknesses and stupidly retarded losses makes him the single most powerful "herald" level character I've seen. He's toppled Gods in the skyfather tier and destroyed beings capable of wiping the universe/multiverse. Superman answers the call in comics to combat some of the strongest threats in the multiverse where others fail. He's done this often enough that it can't be called PIS. However I do concede the number of his feats that are far lower than this are more common but he IS the hero DC tends to go to for indomitable foes.

Anyways Thor clears the list mostly on account of Mjolnir more than his own skills and he has to use his less frequently used powers to do it.

I agree.

The magic, red sun and kryptonite weaknesses exist for that reason.

As for the fight against Superman; Kal-El will give Thor a fight even on equal speed ground, but in the end Thor will prove more versatile and win.

Originally posted by Allankles
I don't see Thor suddenly crashing every herald if he had their speed. We've seen Superman crash the criminal syndicate and 2 of them have his speed or close.

Thor is faster than Hulk yet he doesn't crash him. I just don't think it's speed alone, it's how they fight and use their abilities. In fact in most Superman Thor debates the speed is brought up after strength, and besides speed their's creativity or battle tactics.

Superman wouldn't be blitzing Thor in a comic, it'd be a no frills physical brawl and he'd beat him on average imo. Energy versatility is the only edge he'd have in the long run, but Supes still has serious energy projection powers with his HV which has done some amazing things - most recently getting through Epoch the Time Lords omega barrier.

The reason Supes does not speed blitz majority of his enemies is the same reason why Thor does not run circles around hulk and unload holy lightning hell on him.

Written properly, Thor should be able to destroy hulk... and I for one am pissed with just how much disrespect marvel shows Thor whenever he's on the same page/screen as hulk.

Originally posted by FrothByte

Written properly, Thor should be able to destroy hulk... and I for one am pissed with just how much disrespect marvel shows Thor whenever he's on the same page/screen as hulk.

Funny how Black Bolt and Surfer can own Hulk, but Thor has more trouble then anyone. Yet, he can own Black Bolt and at least hang with Surfer... Namor, too. How's Thor usually do against Subby?

I guess Hulk's his personal kryptonite character..

By looking at accomplishments and who has defeated who and who has taken what type of punishment that is unbelievable... no Herald match Thor. He has taken hits without falling from Celestials, he has withstood hits from a Primal god, attacks from an angry Odin that was trying to kill him, Galactus, Mangog, the Destroyer, more Celestials, etc, etc,... that's taking hits and getting back up. As for damage out put under his own power, still no Herald matches him. He has damaged Celestials, damaged Mangog, damaged Galactus on 2 occassions, defeated Ego, etc, etc... the ONLY edge a Herald would have over Thor is speed, imo its their only hope. Thor hitting power has no equal from what was shown destructive wise on panel (created Nuke like explosions, seeable shockwaves sent across the universe, hit Bill so hard that it blew up a portion of a planet, etc, etc..) without using hyperbole statements.

Marvel did wisely with the option of not giving him speed because if he had it, there would be no one to stand in his way and he would imo be high trans reaching skyfather.

Originally posted by cdtm
Funny how Black Bolt and Surfer can own Hulk, but Thor has more trouble then anyone. Yet, he can own Black Bolt and at least hang with Surfer... Namor, too. How's Thor usually do against Subby?

I guess Hulk's his personal kryptonite character..

When has Blackbolt owned Hulk. Surfer didn't own Hulk, he drained him. Thor fights Hulk like a man and Black Bolt does as well and I have as of yet to see BB OWN Hulk.

Hulk is too powerful to be owned.

Originally posted by carver9
By looking at accomplishments and who has defeated who and who has taken what type of punishment that is unbelievable... no Herald match Thor. He has taken hits without falling from Celestials, he has withstood hits from a Primal god, attacks from an angry Odin that was trying to kill him, Galactus, Mangog, the Destroyer, more Celestials, etc, etc,... that's taking hits and getting back up. As for damage out put under his own power, still no Herald matches him. He has damaged Celestials, damaged Mangog, damaged Galactus on 2 occassions, defeated Ego, etc, etc... the ONLY edge a Herald would have over Thor is speed, imo its their only hope. Thor hitting power has no equal from what was shown destructive wise on panel (created Nuke like explosions, seeable shockwaves sent across the universe, hit Bill so hard that it blew up a portion of a planet, etc, etc..) without using hyperbole statements.

Marvel did wisely with the option of not giving him speed because if he had it, there would be no one to stand in his way and he would imo be high trans reaching skyfather.

Originally posted by carver9
When has Blackbolt owned Hulk. Surfer didn't own Hulk, he drained him. Thor fights Hulk like a man and Black Bolt does as well and I have as of yet to see BB OWN Hulk.

Hulk is too powerful to be owned.

More like "too popular to be owned". Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Hulk hater. I just hate it when they blow his feats out of proportion just to cater to the fanboys. Same problem with Wolverine, same problem with Batman.

After all, when was the last time you saw Hulk completely owned? Utterly defeated? In a universe like marvel where there are so many more powerful entities than the hulk, he should have been owned a pretty decent number of times by now.

At least wolverine still gets beat up every now and then.

Originally posted by Uriel005
funny I seem to remember Superman on several occasions tanking anti-matter, entropy, the anti-monitor, the omega-effect and several other "unstoppable" opponents. I must be imagining things.

Most of that, he was amped. Superman did confront Imperiex though and Doomsday was beside him. Imperiex blast Doomsday to the bone and also blasted Superman and it was stated that Superman was near death until Darkseid saved him. Now when he sundipped, yes, he took entropy blasts.

So yeah, you were imagining things. Sorry.

Originally posted by FrothByte
More like "too popular to be owned". Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Hulk hater. I just hate it when they blow his feats out of proportion just to cater to the fanboys. Same problem with Wolverine, same problem with Batman.

After all, when was the last time you saw Hulk completely owned? Utterly defeated? In a universe like marvel where there are so many more powerful entities than the hulk, he should have been owned a pretty decent number of times by now.

At least wolverine still gets beat up every now and then.

He was recently owned by Zeus.

Originally posted by carver9
Most of that, he was amped. Superman did confront Imperiex though and Doomsday was beside him. Imperiex blast Doomsday to the bone and also blasted Superman and it was stated that Superman was near death until Darkseid saved him. Now when he sundipped, yes, he took entropy blasts.

So yeah, you were imagining things. Sorry.

No, he wasn't.

Superman has beaten more powerful enemies without sundipping than with it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, he wasn't.

Superman has beaten more powerful enemies without sundipping than with it.

I agree, he has beaten some powerful people but that instance that he is talking about, Superman almost died. The first person to tank an Entropy blast was an upgraded steel... after that, a sundipped Supes.

Shouldn't the title of this thread be: "Is Thor with a massive amp the best herald?"

Superman still dominates Thor.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree, he has beaten some powerful people but that instance that he is talking about, Superman almost died. The first person to tank an Entropy blast was an upgraded steel... after that, a sundipped Supes.

I was talking about the other instances.

Originally posted by carver9
When has Blackbolt owned Hulk. Surfer didn't own Hulk, he drained him. Thor fights Hulk like a man and Black Bolt does as well and I have as of yet to see BB OWN Hulk.

Hulk is too powerful to be owned.

Namor definitely owned Hulk, twice. First time, he owns him via drowning. Second time, they collide in a head on collision, and Hulks knocked unconscious.

I guess your right about Surfer vs Hulk, because honostly, Surfer wasn't even fighting.. But, the fact is, Hulk's best punches couldn't even hurt him, while Surfer could most definitely affect Hulk.

And as for Black Bolt:

BB usually has Hulks number.

The relatively recent "Incredible Hercules vs Hulk" was a pretty good example of Herc dominating, if not outright owning, Hulk.

Herc definitely had the advantage, both in the cover story, and in an old reprinted fight.

Is Thor capable of flight without the aid of Mjolnir?

With the speed amp, he would roughly be equal to Superman.

Superman is the greatest threat in the gauntlet, imo.
As I see it, he stalemates Superman and is unable to progress through the gauntlet.

Originally posted by cdtm
Namor definitely owned Hulk, twice. First time, he owns him via drowning. Second time, they collide in a head on collision, and Hulks knocked unconscious.

The first one was an owning but i would hardly call the second clash one. It was arguably even a double KO as according to the text it took minutes before Namor was revived by the waters and went looking for Hulk. Of course due to the nature of comics Hulk was still flying through the air and Namor caught up with him but still.

I guess your right about Surfer vs Hulk, because honostly, Surfer wasn't even fighting.. But, the fact is, Hulk's best punches couldn't even hurt him, while Surfer could most definitely affect Hulk.

Surfer has a great record vs Hulk, mostly due to a couple of gamma drains in there but hes also had some better durability showings against Hulk then he has against Thor, for instance. Still I think Planet Hulk showed at least (despite all the asterisks over the encounter) that hes not immune to the Hulks strong suit. Id like to see more clashes in the future but it can be a bit contrived since they are old teammates and do actually come across as friends unlike when writers and fans sometimes try to invoke Thors friendship with Hulk/Banner.

And as for Black Bolt:

BB usually has Hulks number.

The voice has been very effective on Hulk in the past. Again, a very good record.

The relatively recent "Incredible Hercules vs Hulk" was a pretty good example of Herc dominating, if not outright owning, Hulk.

Herc definitely had the advantage, both in the cover story, and in an old reprinted fight.

Hmmm I dont know about that. Herc landed a lot of punches but Hulk looked way more stronger and powerful. I guess it worked out OK when that column exploded in Hulks face and hurt him but i think Hulk looked much more imposing for much of the fight.

Originally posted by FrothByte
The reason Supes does not speed blitz majority of his enemies is the same reason why Thor does not run circles around hulk and unload holy lightning hell on him.

Written properly, Thor should be able to destroy hulk... and I for one am pissed with just how much disrespect marvel shows Thor whenever he's on the same page/screen as hulk.

I think it cuts both ways. I doubt its a very popular opinion around here (and i feel very strongly that boards like this tend to encourage this kind of thinking only in terms of characters whose main strengths is their versatility of powers) but I think you could also argue that written properly Hulk should physically steamroll Thor most times. However 90% of the time the writers give us fights where Hulk doesnt get very strong and Thor doesnt use many/any other powers. Stalemate.

Originally posted by carver9
By looking at accomplishments and who has defeated who and who has taken what type of punishment that is unbelievable... no Herald match Thor. He has taken hits without falling from Celestials, he has withstood hits from a Primal god, attacks from an angry Odin that was trying to kill him, Galactus, Mangog, the Destroyer, more Celestials, etc, etc,... that's taking hits and getting back up. As for damage out put under his own power, still no Herald matches him. He has damaged Celestials, damaged Mangog, damaged Galactus on 2 occassions, defeated Ego, etc, etc... the ONLY edge a Herald would have over Thor is speed, imo its their only hope. Thor hitting power has no equal from what was shown destructive wise on panel (created Nuke like explosions, seeable shockwaves sent across the universe, hit Bill so hard that it blew up a portion of a planet, etc, etc..) without using hyperbole statements.

Marvel did wisely with the option of not giving him speed because if he had it, there would be no one to stand in his way and he would imo be high trans reaching skyfather.

Eh, pretty sure Surfer's speed is rarely used as the main crux of an argument against Thor, but rather Surfer's huge range of powers (something which doesn't really change in this matchup)