Is Thor the best?

Originally posted by cdtm
Namor definitely owned Hulk, twice. First time, he owns him via drowning. Second time, they collide in a head on collision, and Hulks knocked unconscious.

I guess your right about Surfer vs Hulk, because honostly, Surfer wasn't even fighting.. But, the fact is, Hulk's best punches couldn't even hurt him, while Surfer could most definitely affect Hulk.

And as for Black Bolt:

BB usually has Hulks number.

The relatively recent "Incredible Hercules vs Hulk" was a pretty good example of Herc dominating, if not outright owning, Hulk.

Herc definitely had the advantage, both in the cover story, and in an old reprinted fight.

Originally posted by carver9
By looking at accomplishments and who has defeated who and who has taken what type of punishment that is unbelievable... no Herald match Thor. He has taken hits without falling from Celestials, he has withstood hits from a Primal god, attacks from an angry Odin that was trying to kill him, Galactus, Mangog, the Destroyer, more Celestials, etc, etc,... that's taking hits and getting back up. As for damage out put under his own power, still no Herald matches him. He has damaged Celestials, damaged Mangog, damaged Galactus on 2 occassions, defeated Ego, etc, etc... the ONLY edge a Herald would have over Thor is speed, imo its their only hope. Thor hitting power has no equal from what was shown destructive wise on panel (created Nuke like explosions, seeable shockwaves sent across the universe, hit Bill so hard that it blew up a portion of a planet, etc, etc..) without using hyperbole statements.

Marvel did wisely with the option of not giving him speed because if he had it, there would be no one to stand in his way and he would imo be high trans reaching skyfather.

With respect to all of that, he has been dropped by a lot less, and been unable to damage a lot less. Now if we're simply stacking high end stuff, then its only fair to compare and contrast the other heralds high end feats as well to see if Thor's still stand tallest.

Originally posted by Fifthchild
I think it cuts both ways. I doubt its a very popular opinion around here (and i feel very strongly that boards like this tend to encourage this kind of thinking only in terms of characters whose main strengths is their versatility of powers) but I think you could also argue that written properly Hulk should physically steamroll Thor most times. However 90% of the time the writers give us fights where Hulk doesnt get very strong and Thor doesnt use many/any other powers. Stalemate.

Well, Thor's strength is closer to Hulk's strength than Hulk's fighting prowess is to Thor's. Although I agree that Hulk can get stronger by the moment, I don't believe he can get stronger by the snap of a finger. It takes time.

So as to Hulk completely overpowering Thor in a show of strength? Yes, I agree to that. But as to Hulk steamrolling Thor in a fight? No, definitely not. Since Thor is faster, more agile, a way better fighter, and has enough strength to hurt the hulk.

DD could own him

with = speeds, he'd beat them all. except maybe runner. some of runner's early feats are pretty good and place him well into the trans tier i think.

Originally posted by leonidas
with = speeds, he'd beat them all. except maybe runner. some of runner's early feats are pretty good and place him well into the trans tier i think.

Originally posted by Starscream M
he's still not as durable or as strong as superman 😐

close enough that those things are never the difference in their battles. his magic more than makes up for those differences anyway. imo he'd have more problems with cm/adam, especially if their magic immunities are played up like they could possibly be.

Originally posted by carver9
This is a remake but I am adding peeps. Thor face each of these individuals in a gauntlet fashion. If there is a speed difference, he receive the same amount of speed they have along with the experience.

Is it just the speed that keeps Thor from basically overwhelming his opponents for a large majority?

Without the speed difference what would you give Thor out of 10 against...

1. Surfer
2. Superman
3. Captain Marvel
4. Wally
5. Runner
6. Black Adam

Superman: In this case without the speed difference Thor wins a vast majority. With speed equalized, Thors versatility and power output advantages become extremely prominent and certainly overhwlem supermans relatively minor physical advantages.

Silver Surfer: This match, becomes a toss up with a slight edge towards Thor in my estimation. Thor has the power output advantages and strength advantages, while surfer has the durability
and in battle versatility advantages (he is more creative with his powers). slight edge to Thor.

Captain marvel: Here Thor wins a vast majority. Without the speed difference he has considerably more advantages, and is just straight up more powerful. He is Marvels physical peer while having a boatload of other abilities to go along with it and a weapon that increases his striking power. Thor wins the vast majority

Wally: Without the speed advantage, Thor wins the vast majority

Runner: Runner was portrayed as straight up more powerful than Surfer in their confrontation, so this is probably the closest battle. 50/50

Black Adam: See Captain marvel.

I could see them all going either way without Speed

Based on the stips, I'd give the Odinson 9/10 against Surfer, Captain Marvel, Superman, and Black Adam. I can't understand anyone giving them more than 6/10 at best against Thor so removing such a vital advantage it lends them on a battle board would really turn the tables. Tbh, I don't think speed matters all that much on average and perhaps because of that, I give Thor odds over any of them.

He'd annihilate Wally and would take down the Runner.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Superman: In this case without the speed difference Thor wins a vast majority. With speed equalized, Thors versatility and power output advantages become extremely prominent and certainly overhwlem supermans relatively minor physical advantages.

Silver Surfer: This match, becomes a toss up with a slight edge towards Thor in my estimation. Thor has the power output advantages and strength advantages, while surfer has the durability
and in battle versatility advantages (he is more creative with his powers). slight edge to Thor.

Captain marvel: Here Thor wins a vast majority. Without the speed difference he has considerably more advantages, and is just straight up more powerful. He is Marvels physical peer while having a boatload of other abilities to go along with it and a weapon that increases his striking power. Thor wins the vast majority

Wally: Without the speed advantage, Thor wins the vast majority

Runner: Runner was portrayed as straight up more powerful than Surfer in their confrontation, so this is probably the closest battle. 50/50

Black Adam: See Captain marvel.

thumbup

I like your point about the striking power. Even though Mjolnir is a weapon, it is part of the Thor character. It is more a part of his powerset. His striking power is ridiculous. This advantage given by Mjolnir is what separates him from most heralds.

Originally posted by carver9
The twist is if Thor fight a speedster (Gladiator, Superman, etc...) his speed is increased to their level and he also gets the same experience with their speed just like they have.

Do Superman/Flash/etc. get Mjolnir and the same experience Thor has with it?

Originally posted by Simbon
Shouldn't the title of this thread be: "Is Thor with a massive amp the best herald?"

Even with equal speed to Superman, Thor cannot beat all heralds. The ones he cannot beat are Superman, Captain Marvel and Black Adam. Having super speed would just mean that people would not see Superman knock out Thor.

thor would stomp superman, adam, and CM

Originally posted by bbrem123
thor would stomp superman, adam, and CM

No way. I am a massive marvel mark, but Thor ain't beating Superman. Superman has gone up against guys just as tough or tougher than Thor. Thor has never went up against anybody like Superman. Besides the hammer would be the only think keeping Thor in the fight. Once Superman knocks it out of his hands it's really over. The fight in Jla/Marvel is an accurate interpertation of how a Superman/Thor fight would go down.

CM/BA durability is higher than Thors.

Thor has gone up against more powerful people than Superman.

Meh I never thought Thor was so completely outclassed speed wise to begin with.

Of course I'll more than admit that he is the slowest of the high heralds here.

I've always considered it a good trade off. Thor isn't always the best in every category but he does almost everything very well. He isn't as strong as Superman but he is close. He isn't as versatile as Silver Surfer and GLs but he is close enough. The one thing that he always excelled at was raw power output and damage. I always thought that his lower level speed made the balancing out quite nice between everyone.

You take that away and I'd probably give him a healthy majority against everyone here. 9/10 for everyone maybe 10/10 with Superman because of the magic weakness. Just like if you took away a major character discrepency in any of the high herald they would take a healtier majority over the others.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
No way. I am a massive marvel mark, but Thor ain't beating Superman. Superman has gone up against guys just as tough or tougher than Thor. Thor has never went up against anybody like Superman. Besides the hammer would be the only think keeping Thor in the fight. Once Superman knocks it out of his hands it's really over. The fight in Jla/Marvel is an accurate interpertation of how a Superman/Thor fight would go down.

CM/BA durability is higher than Thors.

Thor's went up against Superman analogues, who are "like" Superman in terms of power set - not power levels, though - and won. And he's battled people far more powerful than Superman and won, just like Superman has battled people more powerful than Thor and won. Mjolnir seals the deal, but Thor is physically comparable in terms of strength to Superman as well as being quite durable with, imo, superior damage soak to compensate for lower outright "invincibility". Knocking Mjolnir out of his hands is not a instant loss waiting to happen as Thor can summon Mjolnir back to him at a moment's notice, as shown multiple times in comics. And if you consider JLA/Avengers to be accurate, then at the same time you agree that Thor is perhaps the single toughest opponent Superman has ever fought and in the same breath, Superman only barely beat him and that a rematch could really go either way.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
No way. I am a massive marvel mark, but Thor ain't beating Superman. Superman has gone up against guys just as tough or tougher than Thor. Thor has never went up against anybody like Superman.

Urmm.. Gladiator(whose pretty much exactly like Superman), but also.. Silver Surfer(whose arguably superior to Supes in many ways??)

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Besides the hammer would be the only think keeping Thor in the fight. Once Superman knocks it out of his hands it's really over.

LOL Get outta here!

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
The fight in Jla/Marvel is an accurate interpertation of how a Superman/Thor fight would go down.

You mean the one where Supes did get hit by Thor, where he did not knock Mjolnir out of Thor's hands and where Supes states Thor is the Single Toughest opponent he's ever defeated.. And where Supes is left in such a bad state from the fight that Iron Man can shoot him down.. And where the possibility of Thor winning a rematch is definetely left as a possibility??

That Jla/Marvel crossover right??