Clubber Lang vs. Ivan Drago

Started by Psychotron37 pages

Originally posted by juggerman
I posted a link for you but in case you missed it here it is again:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/05/rocky-iii-fight-breakdown-mr-t-birthday

Now who is the insane, blind, stupid, troll? That would be you clown

I've just destroyed your stance with a simple Google search. If anyone is delusional it is you sir.

I've never argued one way or the other since it was never stated and any guesses would be just that, guesses. I like to stick to the facts and not make assumptions like you do

Well now you are moving away from your original point. I guess you've conceded that point and wish to move on to another one? Well I accept your concession then.

Eh, fine. I was wrong on that one. However, Lang still hit Rocky with more power punches, Rocky just had more jabs.

Oh, that's rich coming from the guy's basing his entire stance on a character statement as opposed to hard facts.

That was my original point. Muscle = extra durability. You can't deny it.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Eh, fine. I was wrong on that one. However, Lang still hit Rocky with more power punches, Rocky just had more jabs.

Oh, that's rich coming from the guy's basing his entire stance on a character statement as opposed to hard facts.

That was my original point. Muscle = extra durability. You can't deny it.

Don't try to spin it. You were wrong. Let it go

It is based on facts. Rocky's actions and reactions are facts. And again my facts shot many of your stances down so far

You original point was about two totally different people and just assuming the one with more muscle would be automatically more durable. Not always the case.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Drago wins

Yes he does

And his punching power is superior to Clubber's. Glad you agreed to that too 🙂

Originally posted by Lestov16
And his punching power is superior to Clubber's. Glad you agreed to that too 🙂

Nope.

juggerquan has hydra-like regeneration abilities.

He thinks if he just keeps saying "LOLNOPE, CUZ STUFF", he wins.

JQ, Google "objective", "debate", "argument" and "burden of proof".

Then Google a school and enroll in that shit.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
juggerquan has hydra-like regeneration abilities.

He thinks if he just keeps saying "LOLNOPE, CUZ STUFF", he wins.

JQ, Google "objective", "debate", "argument" and "burden of proof".

Then Google a school and enroll in that shit.

You should get that butt hurt looked at.

You should google what he said, as well as muscle growth.

Originally posted by Lestov16
You should google what he said, as well as muscle growth.

Shouldn't you be off polishing quan's boots or something?

Originally posted by juggerman
You should get that butt hurt looked at.

1. Can you objectively prove that Lang hits at more than 2k PSI? Protip: Simply saying Lang wasn't measured; therefore he could be higher isn't an objective argument.

2. Can you objectively prove that Rocky fighting Drago is the same in physical endurance and the ability to soak damage as he was fighting Lang? Protip: No, you can't. People's body weight fluctuates quickly, and Rocky explicitly put on more muscle to fight Drago so he could survive.

[list]To get the lean look of a POW in the film Victory, Sylvester ate only 200 calories a day, all protein food, with an occasional potato, just so he wouldn’t faint. In the film he weighed in at 159 pounds, the lightest he ever weighed in his adulthood, until Rocky III.

Sly's torso

When making Rocky III, Sly would begin the day with a two mile jog, then go straight into 18 rounds of sparring, two hours of weightlifting and jumping rope. After all this, he would take a nap in the afternoon, then go running again! He would finish the day with a swim. On this film he made himself even leaner and smaller to enhance the ‘David & Goliath’ imagery. To get this effect Stallone dropped his body weight to a mere 155 lbs, with a diet of 10 eggwhites and a burnt piece of toast once a day, and a piece of fruit every third day. Although this diet left him weak and dizzy, he then built his muscle mass up ounce by ounce until he was up to about 175.[/list]

So basically, Rocky III is Sly's lowest weight in the entire series.

[list]As Stallone continues to slug it out in his workout, his jet-black hair becomes wringing wet. Sweat pours profusely off the tip of his straight roman nose and intensity conquers the contender. Working the world’s most famous biceps, he says that this is the heaviest he’s been in a while. “I was 178 for Rocky, and 200 in Rocky II. For Rocky III I was 163. For my next film, Rocky IV, I went up to 173. I like this weight, because it is a fuller, rounder look, more in keeping with the old Roman athletes. I’m not quite as sinewy as I was in Rocky III, but I feel stronger.”[/list]

The page goes on to say that he worked out more muscles and had to maintain for the longer filming of Rocky IV, and built up muscles he had never used before. While the ten pound difference is in itself not a huge factor, his level of physical shape is incredibly different.

And finally, for the coup de grace:

[list]Sylvester Stallone was in trouble. He had the concept for Rocky IV, Rocky vs the Russians, but what he didn’t have was somebody to play the Russian fighter. He needed a man who would be impressive enough to match and exceed the impact of Rocky’s past opponents: Carl Weathers’ Apollo Creed, wrestler Hulk Hogan and the formidable Mr. T. So Sly resorted to an old time Hollywood ploy – an international talent search.

Enter Dolph Lundgren – former chemical engineer, kick boxing champion, and actor. Dolph was in New York at the time and heard Stallone was casting for Rocky IV. He auditioned, but was immediately turned down. At almost 6'; 6";, he was told he was too tall. “I think they saw about 8,000 people,” Dolph recalls. “They were getting desperate, almost to the point of changing the plot, doing away with the idea of a Russian boxer because they couldn’t find the right person. They needed somebody with a good body who could act, box, and speak with a Russian accent.[/list]

Source.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
1. Can you objectively prove that Lang hits at more than 2k PSI? Protip: Simply saying Lang wasn't measured; therefore he could be higher isn't an objective argument.

2. Can you objectively prove that Rocky fighting Drago is the same in physical endurance and the ability to soak damage as he was fighting Lang? Protip: No, you can't. People's body weight fluctuates quickly, and Rocky explicitly put on more muscle to fight Drago so he could survive.

[list]To get the lean look of a POW in the film Victory, Sylvester ate only 200 calories a day, all protein food, with an occasional potato, just so he wouldn’t faint. [b]In the film he weighed in at 159 pounds, the lightest he ever weighed in his adulthood, until Rocky III.

Sly's torso

When making Rocky III, Sly would begin the day with a two mile jog, then go straight into 18 rounds of sparring, two hours of weightlifting and jumping rope. After all this, he would take a nap in the afternoon, then go running again! He would finish the day with a swim. On this film he made himself even leaner and smaller to enhance the ‘David & Goliath’ imagery. To get this effect Stallone dropped his body weight to a mere 155 lbs, with a diet of 10 eggwhites and a burnt piece of toast once a day, and a piece of fruit every third day. Although this diet left him weak and dizzy, he then built his muscle mass up ounce by ounce until he was up to about 175.[/list]

So basically, Rocky III is Sly's lowest weight in the entire series.

[list]As Stallone continues to slug it out in his workout, his jet-black hair becomes wringing wet. Sweat pours profusely off the tip of his straight roman nose and intensity conquers the contender. Working the world’s most famous biceps, he says that this is the heaviest he’s been in a while. “I was 178 for Rocky, and 200 in Rocky II. For Rocky III I was 163. For my next film, Rocky IV, I went up to 173. I like this weight, because it is a fuller, rounder look, more in keeping with the old Roman athletes. I’m not quite as sinewy as I was in Rocky III, but I feel stronger.”[/list]

The page goes on to say that he worked out more muscles and had to maintain for the longer filming of Rocky IV, and built up muscles he had never used before. While the ten pound difference is in itself not a huge factor, his level of physical shape is incredibly different.

And finally, for the coup de grace:

[list]Sylvester Stallone was in trouble. He had the concept for Rocky IV, Rocky vs the Russians, but what he didn’t have was somebody to play the Russian fighter. He needed a man who would be impressive enough to match and exceed the impact of Rocky’s past opponents: Carl Weathers’ Apollo Creed, wrestler Hulk Hogan and the formidable Mr. T. So Sly resorted to an old time Hollywood ploy – an international talent search.

Enter Dolph Lundgren – former chemical engineer, kick boxing champion, and actor. Dolph was in New York at the time and heard Stallone was casting for Rocky IV. He auditioned, but was immediately turned down. At almost 6'; 6";, he was told he was too tall. “I think they saw about 8,000 people,” Dolph recalls. “They were getting desperate, almost to the point of changing the plot, doing away with the idea of a Russian boxer because they couldn’t find the right person. They needed somebody with a good body who could act, box, and speak with a Russian accent.[/list]

Source.

[/B]

1. But saying "it wasn't measured so it was lower" is objective?

2. I never said it was exactly the same. It was similar tho. You need to prove it jumped in leaps and bounds as you are claiming it did.

As for as the Russian exceeding the impact of the other villains, I agreed long ago that he did. He was the most dangerous opponent Rocky ever faced. Much more dangerous than Lang.

Originally posted by Lestov16
his punching power is superior to Clubber's. Glad you agreed to that 🙂
Originally posted by juggerman
1. But saying "it wasn't measured so it was lower" is objective?

Google "burden of proof", bro. I don't have to prove that Lang is lower when none of the evidence available indicates that he's higher. This doesn't 100% rule it out, but if you intend to argue a position, you have to have strong evidence to support your claims.

Here, look at this example:

2. I never said it was exactly the same. It was similar tho. You need to prove it jumped in leaps and bounds as you are claiming it did.

1. Claim that he improved physically, strengthened his muscle, and was in much better shape in Rocky IV versus III.

2. Evidence provided: measurable amounts of weight fluctuation. Verbatim words from Sly Stallone talking about being in better weight; working out much harder, and working out muscles he didn't have before to exceed a boxer's normal training program, something he explicitly didn't do in Rocky III.

Is the evidence strong enough to support the conclusion versus the complete absence of evidence against?

Yes, it is.

As for as the Russian exceeding the impact of the other villains, I agreed long ago that he did. He was the most dangerous opponent Rocky ever faced. Much more dangerous than Lang.

Yes, he was. Because he had superior reach, speed, endurance, and strength. This is also in the section about Dolph's training. Dolph Lundgren was in the best shape of his life during Rocky IV and has about 60 lbs. on Sly.

So yeah.

Mission achieved.

Originally posted by Lestov16

Nope

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Google "burden of proof", bro. I don't have to prove that Lang is lower when none of the evidence available indicates that he's higher. This doesn't 100% rule it out, but if you intend to argue a position, you have to have strong evidence to support your claims.

Here, look at this example:

1. Claim that he improved physically, strengthened his muscle, and was in much better shape in Rocky IV versus III.

2. Evidence provided: measurable amounts of weight fluctuation. Verbatim words from Sly Stallone talking about being in better weight; working out much harder, and working out muscles he didn't have before to exceed a boxer's normal training program, something he explicitly didn't do in Rocky III.

Is the evidence strong enough to support the conclusion versus the complete [b]absence of evidence against?

Yes, it is.

Yes, he was. Because he had superior reach, speed, endurance, and strength. This is also in the section about Dolph's training. Dolph Lundgren was in the best shape of his life during Rocky IV and has about 60 lbs. on Sly.

So yeah.

Mission achieved. [/B]

1. Rocky himself is proof.

2. Increased weight of roughly 10lbs is not enough to boost his durability to the point of where you would need it to be to support your claim

I never claimed he wasn't a bigger threat.

Originally posted by Lestov16

Another co-sign from the quan slave. Looking for a new master is seems.

Originally posted by juggerman
1. Rocky himself is proof.

2. Increased weight of roughly 10lbs is not enough to boost his durability to the point of where you would need it to be to support your claim

I never claimed he wasn't a bigger threat.

You're a horrible troll. The only way you could be for real is you're brain damaged, 12, or you think it's awesome to troll. None of these are mutually-exclusive either.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose

You're a horrible troll. The only way you could be for real is you're brain damaged, 12, or you think it's awesome to troll. None of these are mutually-exclusive either.

No need to get upset.

I ain't even mad. Rather amused actually. You could be a scientific discovery capable of making my career.