Clubber Lang vs. Ivan Drago

Started by KuRuPT Thanosi37 pages

I think Drago was meant to be the biggest baddest foe Rocky had faced to date.. I think that was the clear presentation of the movie. That said, I don't believe you can use the movies to say Drago hit harder than Clubber... With Lang.. Rocky made it a point NOT to take on Clubber head on... when people are claiming rocky mocked Lang and took his power.. HE DIDN'T... all those shots were BLOCKED or Dodge.. With Drago... he decided to take him HEAD ON.. Barely blocking a thing nor dodging a thing. This is in stark contrasts to how he approached and took Clubbers punches.

That said, I'm not saying who would win or anything like that. But saying Drago hit harder and using rocky as proof using the movies is actually the opposite stance comes to light. He seemed to take Drago's punches better and decided to meet him head on. he literally felt like he NEEDED to do the opposite with Clubber via the clear presentation of that movie. For whatever it's worth

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I think Drago was meant to be the biggest baddest foe Rocky had faced to date.. I think that was the clear presentation of the movie. That said, I don't believe you can use the movies to say Drago hit harder than Clubber... With Lang.. Rocky made it a point NOT to take on Clubber head on... when people are claiming rocky mocked Lang and took his power.. HE DIDN'T... all those shots were BLOCKED or Dodge.. With Drago... he decided to take him HEAD ON.. Barely blocking a thing nor dodging a thing. This is in stark contrasts to how he approached and took Clubbers punches.

That said, I'm not saying who would win or anything like that. But saying Drago hit harder and using rocky as proof using the movies is actually the opposite stance comes to light. He seemed to take Drago's punches better and decided to meet him head on. he literally felt like he NEEDED to do the opposite with Clubber via the clear presentation of that movie. For whatever it's worth

...

1. Rocky dodged Lang to make him tire out faster and look like a tool. Drago has superhuman stamina and strength, so he doesn't tire out like a pussy in three rounds.

2. Lang doesn't have verified punching strength in excess of 2 times real-life records, bro. Drago does, on screen no less.

3. Rocky told Lang he hit worse than his mother and mocked him, deliberately tanking shit despite what Creed told him to do. Comparatively, Drago had too much reach and speed for Rocky to do the same for the first third of the fight, Rocky couldn't dodge as easily, and only when Drago toned it down did it become more of a slug match.

Srsly, go rewatch the fights bro. This is a solid case.

Big Moose

I understand what you're saying.. and as I said.. the clear presentation of the movie made it clear Drago was suppose to be the biggest baddest fighter there was. I agree with this point. I also agree they back up this with his performance in the punching test. No arguments there. That said, and there is no getting around this...

Creed (the renowned champion of the movies) made it CLEAR Rocky couldn't go toe to toe with Lang. This was very clear in the presentation of the movies. This was further confirmed with the game plan on how to fight him... Which is to stay away.. use your speed and just box him. To not engage him head on. This is why Creed was so upset when rocky employed HIS strat he came up with during the fight.. Which was to block his punches or make him miss to tire him out. Point is, in either case it was made explicitly clear he was not to engage Lang head to head. This is in STARK contrast to how me engage Drago. STARK contrast. He strat there was to ACTUALLY engage Drago in a war... He literally blocked like no punches no tried to dodge any. This COULD show that he was more worried about Lang's power than Drago. Logically speaking this is sound logic. The Problem is...

It does go against the clear presentation of Rocky 4 which was that Drago was the finest Physical boxing specimen the world had known and also the strongest. I suppose one could remedy the two with... Rocky got in the best shape of his entire life and that is why he was able to take Drago head on... Maybe he was extra motivated with Apollo dying and that is why he was able to tank punches from somebody that was the strongest he faced.. yet he shy away from that with clubber. Who knows, all I'm saying is, there is some contradiction in how Rocky fought both men in re: power

Moose just trolls. It was obvious and smacked the watcher in the face the differences in Rockys strategy but moose really turned on by a man all juiced up with punching power.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Moose just trolls. It was obvious and smacked the watcher in the face the differences in Rockys strategy but moose really turned on by a man all juiced up with punching power.

You should see a doctor about that macular degeneration.

KT, I get what you're saying. However, Rocky's a variable and his behavior is not an objective benchmark, especially when he is in much better condition during the fight with Drago and the latter doesn't go all out for rage haymakers like Lang.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
You should see a doctor about that macular degeneration.

KT, I get what you're saying. However, Rocky's a variable and his behavior is not an objective benchmark, especially when he is in much better condition during the fight with Drago and the latter doesn't go all out for rage haymakers like Lang.

See what I mean, trolls.

The strategy was clearly different despite your inability to accept it. He went the distance with Drago because he could have not the same with Lang. Strategies matter.

But he was in better shape, mentally and physically, in Rocky IV. An inferior Rocky rope-a-doped Lang. A peak Rocky went fifteen rounds with Drago. Drago is still stronger, so suck it.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
But he was in better shape, mentally and physically, in Rocky IV. An inferior Rocky rope-a-doped Lang. A peak Rocky went fifteen rounds with Drago. Drago is still stronger, so suck it.
No, he most certainly was not. He was far quicker and leaner in the third one. He did the same old thing and took Drago's best. He didn't need to tire him out or increase his speed to do so. Drago was overhyped and never even won a professional fight.

😂

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I provided evidence. You said "LOLNOPE, DOESN'T SUPPORT MY BIAS" and ignored it. Your evidence consists of "MY BIAS, AS IT TRANSLATES VIDEO EVIDENCE AND IGNORES EVERYTHING ELSE, INCLUDING COMMON SENSE AND SLY STALLONE".

So yeah, you're done.

I provided video evidence. You basically just sat there and said "well no cuz uh reasons and such and Rocky trained harder so we should just assume he could take harder hits. No real proof needed cuz herp derp."

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I think Drago was meant to be the biggest baddest foe Rocky had faced to date.. I think that was the clear presentation of the movie. That said, I don't believe you can use the movies to say Drago hit harder than Clubber... With Lang.. Rocky made it a point NOT to take on Clubber head on... when people are claiming rocky mocked Lang and took his power.. HE DIDN'T... all those shots were BLOCKED or Dodge.. With Drago... he decided to take him HEAD ON.. Barely blocking a thing nor dodging a thing. This is in stark contrasts to how he approached and took Clubbers punches.

That said, I'm not saying who would win or anything like that. But saying Drago hit harder and using rocky as proof using the movies is actually the opposite stance comes to light. He seemed to take Drago's punches better and decided to meet him head on. he literally felt like he NEEDED to do the opposite with Clubber via the clear presentation of that movie. For whatever it's worth

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Big Moose

I understand what you're saying.. and as I said.. the clear presentation of the movie made it clear Drago was suppose to be the biggest baddest fighter there was. I agree with this point. I also agree they back up this with his performance in the punching test. No arguments there. That said, and there is no getting around this...

Creed (the renowned champion of the movies) made it CLEAR Rocky couldn't go toe to toe with Lang. This was very clear in the presentation of the movies. This was further confirmed with the game plan on how to fight him... Which is to stay away.. use your speed and just box him. To not engage him head on. This is why Creed was so upset when rocky employed HIS strat he came up with during the fight.. Which was to block his punches or make him miss to tire him out. Point is, in either case it was made explicitly clear he was not to engage Lang head to head. This is in STARK contrast to how me engage Drago. STARK contrast. He strat there was to ACTUALLY engage Drago in a war... He literally blocked like no punches no tried to dodge any. This COULD show that he was more worried about Lang's power than Drago. Logically speaking this is sound logic. The Problem is...

It does go against the clear presentation of Rocky 4 which was that Drago was the finest Physical boxing specimen the world had known and also the strongest. I suppose one could remedy the two with... Rocky got in the best shape of his entire life and that is why he was able to take Drago head on... Maybe he was extra motivated with Apollo dying and that is why he was able to tank punches from somebody that was the strongest he faced.. yet he shy away from that with clubber. Who knows, all I'm saying is, there is some contradiction in how Rocky fought both men in re: power

Pretty much 😎

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he most certainly was not. He was far quicker and leaner in the third one. He did the same old thing and took Drago's best. He didn't need to tire him out or increase his speed to do so. Drago was overhyped and never even won a professional fight.

😂

I think his fight with Creed was a professional fight. If not then yeah that is funny

Originally posted by juggerman
I think his fight with Creed was a professional fight. If not then yeah that is funny
It was just an exhibition against a washed up Creed. Its hilarious.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he most certainly was not. He was far quicker and leaner in the third one. He did the same old thing and took Drago's best. He didn't need to tire him out or increase his speed to do so. Drago was overhyped and never even won a professional fight.

😂

Learn 2 read, fool. I posted the weight disparity as well as viable information from Sly himself about how he was in the best shape of his life during IV, and was at his lowest weight beginning in Rocky III. Comparatively, they are not the same exact person. There's reason to believe they are sufficiently different enough in terms of muscle mass, build, and weight that their abilities to soak damage are not the same. I'll give you a hint why:

Spoiler:
They are different physically. Derp. It's axiomatic.

So using Rocky as an objective benchmark while injecting your own personal, subjective views on how Rocky did or did not dodge XYZ (even though Rocky won the fight not so much by dodging but by combining it with outright tanking and mockery) is missing the effin' point of the movie. Lang was never in Rocky's league, and his one-up was only possible because Rocky was first out of shape and later with a bit of training took him to the cleaners.

Saying Lang hits harder because Rocky was dodging him ignores important context, like the fact that Drago was much harder to dodge, and dodging was less viable because Drago doesn't have the endurance of a prom night three-pump chump like Lang. Rocky had no choice but to endure Drago's hits; with Lang, the moron was leaning into them and tired out like a pussy in three rounds.

Also, Drago has a 2k+ PSI peak strike, which means he's up to 2x stronger than real-life Olympic and professional strikers. He's literally in his own tier. To claim that Lang is equal to him, much less superior, begs for exceptional evidence.

Evidence no one has been able to provide. Because it doesn't exist.

Originally posted by juggerman
I provided video evidence. You basically just sat there and said "well no cuz uh reasons and such and Rocky trained harder so we should just assume he could take harder hits. No real proof needed cuz herp derp."

Look who strawmans and then whines about being the victim of the same here.

1. You claimed Rocky is an objective and static unit of measurement for determining the strength of punching of Lang and Drago.

I pointed out why this was false: that physically he is different, that mentally he has changed, and that your own views on Rocky dodging, without explicit supplemental evidence to support it being because he was afraid of Lang's punches (Lang, who hits worse than his mother, ffs), is unsupported. The stronger the claim, the stronger the evidence needed.

Your evidence has been subjective and stretched, to be kind. Therefore, your stance is the weakest. Accept this and be a man for once.

2. Drago punches superhumanly harder. This is self-evident. The film shows us a measurement using an objective measuring instrument. Compared with real-life examples, this places Ivan Drago over twice as powerful as real-life Olympians and professionals in terms of peak punching power. There's no reason to assume this information is suspect. There's no reason to assume people in the Rocky-verse punch harder than RL people, with the exception of Drago who is something of a freak of nature. There's nothing to show that Lang is substantially stronger than the guy next to him, much less a Soviet Superman. Therefore, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of Drago being the stronger.

Accept this and move on.

3. Sly Stallone's own website notes that Rocky was in peak shape and Drago was the strongest guy he ever went up against. You pretended like this didn't exist because it hurt your bias.

Now...

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Learn 2 read, fool. I posted the weight disparity as well as viable information from Sly himself about how he was in the best shape of his life during IV, and was at his lowest weight beginning in Rocky III. Comparatively, they are not the same exact person. There's reason to believe they are sufficiently different enough in terms of muscle mass, build, and weight that their abilities to soak damage are not the same. I'll give you a hint why:

Spoiler:
They are different physically. Derp. It's axiomatic.

So using Rocky as an objective benchmark while injecting your own personal, subjective views on how Rocky did or did not dodge XYZ (even though Rocky won the fight not so much by dodging but by combining it with outright tanking and mockery) is missing the effin' point of the movie. Lang was never in Rocky's league, and his one-up was only possible because Rocky was first out of shape and later with a bit of training took him to the cleaners.

Saying Lang hits harder because Rocky was dodging him ignores important context, like the fact that Drago was much harder to dodge, and dodging was less viable because Drago doesn't have the endurance of a prom night three-pump chump like Lang. Rocky had no choice but to endure Drago's hits; with Lang, the moron was leaning into them and tired out like a pussy in three rounds.

Also, Drago has a 2k+ PSI peak strike, which means he's up to 2x stronger than [b]real-life Olympic and professional strikers. He's literally in his own tier. To claim that Lang is equal to him, much less superior, begs for exceptional evidence.

Evidence no one has been able to provide. Because it doesn't exist.

Look who strawmans and then whines about being the victim of the same here.

1. You claimed Rocky is an objective and static unit of measurement for determining the strength of punching of Lang and Drago.

I pointed out why this was false: that physically he is different, that mentally he has changed, and that your own views on Rocky dodging, without explicit supplemental evidence to support it being because he was afraid of Lang's punches (Lang, who hits worse than his mother, ffs), is unsupported. The stronger the claim, the stronger the evidence needed.

Your evidence has been subjective and stretched, to be kind. Therefore, your stance is the weakest. Accept this and be a man for once.

2. Drago punches superhumanly harder. This is self-evident. The film shows us a measurement using an objective measuring instrument. Compared with real-life examples, this places Ivan Drago over twice as powerful as real-life Olympians and professionals in terms of peak punching power. There's no reason to assume this information is suspect. There's no reason to assume people in the Rocky-verse punch harder than RL people, with the exception of Drago who is something of a freak of nature. There's nothing to show that Lang is substantially stronger than the guy next to him, much less a Soviet Superman. Therefore, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of Drago being the stronger.

Accept this and move on.

3. Sly Stallone's own website notes that Rocky was in peak shape and Drago was the strongest guy he ever went up against. You pretended like this didn't exist because it hurt your bias.

Now...

[/B]

I cited the movie for my argument not slys real life opinion. The strategy can't be denied due to it being vastly different. Rocky not Sly remember Rocky not Sly. We aren't discussing the real life actor. You are friends with Robbie and as the saying goes, Birds of a feather flock together.

Drago wasn't in his league. He cheated and despite the illegal performance enhances Rocky nor Lang used Drago was still unable to best him. That is another objective fact. Lang won once against Rocky. It is a fact.
Drago lost which is another fact. Drago never beat one professional fighter in a real boxing match. Another factoid, dummy.

Listen go back to taking snapshots of Robbie playing dress up because you're clearly out of your league.

Lang 1-1 versus Rocky.

Drago 0-1 against Rocky.

Facts.

🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

Originally posted by quanchi112
I cited the movie for my argument not slys real life opinion.

Sly wrote, created, and starred in all of the Rocky films.

So he's literally an expert on the subject, and he posted his weights, talked about his training regime, and verified what I said. I know this because I went to the source and posted it in this thread. Reading is your friend.

The strategy can't be denied due to it being vastly different. Rocky not Sly remember Rocky not Sly. We aren't discussing the real life actor.

See above. You're functionally retarded.

You are friends with Robbie and as the saying goes, Birds of a feather flock together.

Did you learn that in grade school? I'm assuming before you kidnapped one of the children at recess.

Drago wasn't in his league. He cheated and despite the illegal performance enhances Rocky nor Lang used Drago was still unable to best him. That is another objective fact.

That Rocky won is irrelevant. Rocky beat both. The fact is, he was in better shape and had more motivation to beat Drago than Lang, and Lang's performance was pathetic. Also, no objective measurements to prove Lang was stronger than Drago; the reverse is not the case.

Lang won once against Rocky. It is a fact.

One word for you:

Context.

An out of shape, cocky, party-hard Rocky lost to haymaker city Lang. With some training and focus, Rocky came back and beat him in no time at all.

Drago lost which is another fact.

The herring is red.

Drago never beat one professional fighter in a real boxing match. Another factoid, dummy.

Really? Well, he murdered one guy with his bare hands in a non-regulation boxing match, one-hand chokelifted an adult well into 15 rounds with Rocky, and clocked 2k PSI in peak punching strength which is well beyond norms in real-life.

Don't throw stones in a glass house. Or in your case, glass sanitarium.

Listen go back to taking snapshots of Robbie playing dress up because you're clearly out of your league.

HURR U FUNNEH K.

Lang 1-1 versus Rocky.

Drago 0-1 against Rocky.

Facts.

🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Look who strawmans and then whines about being the victim of the same here.

1. You claimed Rocky is an objective and static unit of measurement for determining the strength of punching of Lang and Drago.

I pointed out why this was false: that physically he is different, that mentally he has changed, and that your own views on Rocky dodging, without explicit supplemental evidence to support it being because he was afraid of Lang's punches (Lang, who hits worse than his mother, ffs), is unsupported. The stronger the claim, the stronger the evidence needed.

Your evidence has been subjective and stretched, to be kind. Therefore, your stance is the weakest. Accept this and be a man for once.

2. Drago punches superhumanly harder. This is self-evident. The film shows us a measurement using an objective measuring instrument. Compared with real-life examples, this places Ivan Drago over twice as powerful as real-life Olympians and professionals in terms of peak punching power. There's no reason to assume this information is suspect. There's no reason to assume people in the Rocky-verse punch harder than RL people, with the exception of Drago who is something of a freak of nature. There's nothing to show that Lang is substantially stronger than the guy next to him, much less a Soviet Superman. Therefore, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of Drago being the stronger.

Accept this and move on.

3. Sly Stallone's own website notes that Rocky was in peak shape and Drago was the strongest guy he ever went up against. You pretended like this didn't exist because it hurt your bias.

Now...

1. You're still crying. You can't get around the FACT that Rocky felt he needed to block and dodge Lang while he didn't need to do so with Drago. Or the FACT that he could have trained himself as he did for Drago but chose to instead focus on avoiding Lang while he had no issue whatsoever taking Drago's hits. You just make claims while I brought video evidence, then you just sit there with your fingers in your ear saying "lalalalalalalala".

2. Drago hits superhumanly hard. Yes. Yet those superhuman hits were less of a problem for Rocky than Lang's super-duperhumanly hard hits. You're blind if you think Lang hits no harder than the average guy. Look at what he did to a man with superhuman durability(Rocky). You must be smoking something if you think Rocky and company are like the average RL human being. If you actually watch the films you'll see they are far from average RL people

3. Too bad it wasn't conveyed like that in the films. As I said earlier, I don't think Lang was created to be superior to Drago(or rather Drago to be inferior to Lang) but based on what we actually see(and not just assume cuz we want to be biased fanbois) Lang strikes harder. Put that in your pipe and shovel it

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Sly wrote, created, and starred in all of the Rocky films.

So he's literally an expert on the subject, and he posted his weights, talked about his training regime, and verified what I said. I know this because I went to the source and posted it in this thread. Reading is your friend.

See above. You're functionally retarded.

Did you learn that in grade school? I'm assuming before you kidnapped one of the children at recess.

That Rocky won is irrelevant. Rocky beat both. The fact is, he was in better shape and had more motivation to beat Drago than Lang, and Lang's performance was pathetic. Also, no objective measurements to prove Lang was stronger than Drago; the reverse is not the case.

One word for you:

[b]Context.

An out of shape, cocky, party-hard Rocky lost to haymaker city Lang. With some training and focus, Rocky came back and beat him in no time at all.

The herring is red.

Really? Well, he murdered one guy with his bare hands in a non-regulation boxing match, one-hand chokelifted an adult well into 15 rounds with Rocky, and clocked 2k PSI in peak punching strength which is well beyond norms in real-life.

Don't throw stones in a glass house. Or in your case, glass sanitarium.

HURR U FUNNEH K.

[/B]

Sly gave his opinion on his conditioning in real life over the films you numbskull. Subjectivity is opinion anyways ya hick. You're using an actors opinion and trying to pass it off as a fact. Just like Roberta using words you do not know the meaning of.

Do you know what the word strategy even means ? Ironic insult. The strategies he used against both boxers is an objective fact as in it happened. Undeniable. You inserting your ignorant opinion is well being subjective. Yw for teaching you something.

How original you are. Saying my clever wit is middle school level. Ah well carry on, kiddo.

So Rocky winning is irrelevant.... Do you realize how stupid you sound ? I know the answer is no. 😂

Again what actually occurred is factual whereas you're inserting a subjective opinion based on the actors training regiment in real life while dismissing the winner, strategies, and other fun movie facts that occurred.

Rocky still lost. Rocky never lost against Drago. These are two irrefutable facts. The strategy Rocky used against Lang was entirely different than his usual I will wear you down and tank your punches. Either way the facts are indeed on my side.

Cheating is another objective fact. No one else was cheating and he lost despite the huge and unfair advantage steroids give athletes.

Again it is a fact he never won against a professional fighter in a real boxing match. He beat an out of shape Creed to death in an exhibition fight.

Despite the steroid advantage, youth advantage, and illegal punches after the bell here to beat to death a has been in an exhibition matchup he never won another match.

2:15ish in. Count the illegal punches after the bell. Its kinda fun to see how low this guy will stoop against someone in an exhibition match he's juiced up for in the first place.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oWuhdLVSQtY

Evidence, how I love thee.