Originally posted by h1a8
No disrespect to the All father. But I feel his creators created him to be physically weaker than Thor (and by actual mythology). Odin is 100% Asgardian where Thor is half Asgardian and half elder god (which gives him greater strength than any Asgardian). Also, Odin was listed in official handbooks as being weaker than Thor (Thor being the strongest of all the Asgardians). I know what you are going to say. But handbooks are truth ONLY IF there exists no contradictory evidence otherwise.
I don't give a shit what you believe. You have no proof to support your stance.
There exists plenty of evidence. You just have no idea of what you're talking about.
Originally posted by h1a8
Who cares about who wrecks who? My primary argument is who is stronger, nothing more. Wrecking someone has nothing to do with who is stronger in general. IMO, Glads would easily wreck the enchanters in a physical fight if he fought at his best ability.
Have you even read a single comic that included the Enchanters?
Originally posted by h1a8
To be clear, there is no evidence whatsoever that Odin is stronger than Glads (at high confidence) and certainly no evidence that he is stronger than his own son.
The Odin Force:
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/9349/thor43415.jpg
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/9939/thor43416.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8447/thor43417.jpg
Vs.
Gladiator:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsGladiator02.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/MastersonThorvsGladiator04.jpg
Can you tell the difference?
Originally posted by Wodenson
Here is Heimdall, with a small portion of the Odin-Power, beating the tar out of Masterson-Thor.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusI gave the proof. I said Marvel created Thor to be the strongest Asgardian due to him being half elder god. It is even in the official handbooks and mythology in which Thor is based off.
I don't give a shit what you believe. You have no proof to support your stance.There exists plenty of evidence. You just have no idea of what you're talking about.
Have you even read a single comic that included the Enchanters?
Of course I've seen comics which the enchanters. They have no strength feats that put them over Gladiator. Thor fought one to a standstill, although fighting someone to a standstill doesn't prove the stronger.
The first scans are not valid. They are heimdall and not Odin. For all I'm concerned heimdall was already strong as hell, possibly far stronger than Odin without the Odin power. Adding the Odin power to him would make him far stronger than Odin. With that said, heimdall didn't display any strength greater than Thor. He just displayed awesome durability. And when he struck, Masterson wasn't even koed or knocked down. Glads hit Masterson a few times and he was almost ktfo. Masterson only affected Glads to that level because of the cheapshot lightning which stunned him and made him more vulnerable. Thus yes I see a big difference. Your turn.
The Odin Force:
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/9349/thor43415.jpg
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/9939/thor43416.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8447/thor43417.jpgVs.
Gladiator:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsGladiator02.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/MastersonThorvsGladiator04.jpgCan you tell the difference?
Originally posted by h1a8
This is not Odin and it still doesn't show he is stronger for Thor is still standing.
Heimdall had a small portion of the Odin-Power, and was delivering a bare-fisted, one-sided beating to Masterson with him admitting that he couldn't win.
You don't need to knock someone out to prove that you're stronger than them. You made up that standard, and no one but you is going to adhere to it. So if you're just trying convince yourself, be my guest.
Also, the handbooks are not valid, and you are referencing an outdated entry.
Your turn. This time try to bring some evidence, and not, you know, absolutely nothing.
Originally posted by WodensonIt could have been a big portion, why you say small?
Heimdall had a small portion of the Odin-Power, and was delivering a bare-fisted, one-sided beating to Masterson with him admitting that he couldn't win.You don't need to knock someone out to prove that you're stronger than them. You made up that standard, and no one but you is going to adhere to it. So if you're just trying convince yourself, be my guest.
Also, the handbooks are not valid, and you are referencing an outdated entry.
Your turn. This time try to bring some evidence, and not, you know, absolutely nothing.
Doesn't matter if Thor admitted he can't win. That doesn't prove stronger.
Heimdall was also too durable, almost like Juggernaut. Juggernaut beat down Thor doesn't mean he was stronger. Thor wasn't koed or at least knocked down and remained coherent. Thus those blows were nothing to the blows of other herald level beings.
I didn't say you needed to knock someone out to prove you are stronger. I said that since he didn't ko Thor then he DEFINITELY IS NOT STRONGER than Glads. See the difference?
It's like in Calculus, if an infinite series fails the test for divergence then it doesn't mean it the series converges. But if it does pass the test for divergence then it DEFINITELY DOESN'T CONVERGE.
Originally posted by h1a8
[B]It could have been a big portion, why you say small?
At the time Odin gave Heimdall the Odin-Power, his power had ebbed to such a point that he was experiencing seizures. Odin said he may have needed years of Odin-Sleep to recover his power.
Doesn't matter if Thor admitted he can't win. That doesn't prove stronger.
So Eric being physically manhandled by Heimdall, with a clear admission that he couldn't win, isn't evidence that an Odin-Powered being is stronger than Thor. Got it.
Juggernaut beat down Thor doesn't mean he was stronger.
Especially since Thor was weakened when Juggernaut beat him down. In other words, not the same thing.
I didn't say you needed to knock someone out to prove you are stronger. I said that since he didn't ko Thor then he DEFINITELY IS NOT STRONGER than Glads. See the difference?
So if Mangog hit Thor and didn't knock him out, you'd say that he was not stronger than Gladiator? I just want to know who I'm arguing against here.
Well, Gladiator did hit Masterson with a single punch that was strong enough to take him out of the fight (stated that he couldn't even hardly stand after the blow). That was the first punch that was thrown during that fight and Masterson was out. That still doesn't mean that Glads can hang with Odin but Glads punching power is insane.
Originally posted by carver9
Well, Gladiator did hit Masterson with a single punch that was strong enough to take him out of the fight (stated that he couldn't even hardly stand after the blow). That was the first punch that was thrown during that fight and Masterson was out. That still doesn't mean that Glads can hang with Odin but Glads punching power is insane.
Stop making stuff up.
Originally posted by h1a8 I gave the proof. I said Marvel created Thor to be the strongest Asgardian due to him being half elder god. It is even in the official handbooks and mythology in which Thor is based off.
That's not evidence. That's something you pulled out of your ass. Thor's power is derived mostly from Odin. Who cares if half of his heritage is than of an Elder God? Handbooks are useless as actual evidence unless somehow supported by the comics. You have no actual argument which is why you're obsessed with entries.
Originally posted by h1a8 Of course I've seen comics which the enchanters. They have no strength feats that put them over Gladiator. Thor fought one to a standstill, although fighting someone to a standstill doesn't prove the stronger.
I'd be shocked. An Enchanter is at least a peer to Thor strength wise. They're easily equal to Gladiator strength. Noticeably superior most likely however.
Originally posted by h1a8 The first scans are not valid. They are heimdall and not Odin. For all I'm concerned heimdall was already strong as hell, possibly far stronger than Odin without the Odin power. Adding the Odin power to him would make him far stronger than Odin. With that said, heimdall didn't display any strength greater than Thor. He just displayed awesome durability. And when he struck, Masterson wasn't even koed or knocked down. Glads hit Masterson a few times and he was almost ktfo. Masterson only affected Glads to that level because of the cheapshot lightning which stunned him and made him more vulnerable. Thus yes I see a big difference. Your turn.
Heimdall only possessed a portion of the Odin Power:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/34/thor45017.jpg/
The notion that Heimdall is stronger with a portion of the Odin Power than Odin is while not weakened is insane.
facepalm at Heimdall being stronger than Odin.
Gladiator did not come close to achieving a knock out. He was more formidable in combat due to Masterson's lack of experience. They were peers in strength. Heimdall however was portrayed as noticeably superior in terms of raw might/strength.
Anytime Gladiator is struck by Thor or a peer, he is rocked pretty noticeably. Do you think he'd shrug off a blow like Heimdall if he wasn't stunned by lightning?
I realize this is all pointless however. You make shit up on the spot, think Gladiator is somehow noticeably stronger than Thor at some made up level. So I'm done.
Present some comic evidence or concede. I'm going to attempt to avoid debating you unless it's a battlezone or something.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusOfficial Handbooks (not any handbook) ARE based on both comics and writer's opinions. But there are errors. That is why we can use them if there is no contradicting evidence in comics.
That's not evidence. That's something you pulled out of your ass. Thor's power is derived mostly from Odin. Who cares if half of his heritage is than of an Elder God? Handbooks are useless as actual evidence unless somehow supported by the comics. You have no actual argument which is why you're obsessed with entries.I'd be shocked. An Enchanter is a peer to Thor strength wise. They would at least rival Gladiator's strength.
A portion could mean anything, it could mean 1/3, 1/4, etc. Without the Odin power both Heimdall and Thor are stronger than Odin. Gladiator did come close to knocking him out. A few more blows Thor would have been out. What comic did you read? An average Glads is peers with Thor in strength but certainly not a high confidence Glads. Yes Heimdalls durability was greater than Glads. But durability is durability and strength is strength. I just disagree with using someone elses feats to credit another character. Odin never shown that type of physical strength and durability against physical force like Heimdall showed (Heimdall didn't show a lot of strength though).
Heimdall only possessed a portion of the Odin Power: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/34/thor45017.jpg/The notion that Heimdall is stronger with a portion of the Odin Power than Odin is while not weakened is insane.
facepalm at Heimdall being stronger than Odin.
Gladiator did not come close to achieving a knock out. He was more formidable in combat due to Masterson's lack of experience. They were peers in strength. Heimdall however was portrayed as noticeably superior in terms of raw might/strength.
Anytime Gladiator is struck by Thor or a peer, he is rocked pretty noticeably. Do you think he'd shrug off a blow like Heimdall if he wasn't stunned by lightning?
High confidence Glads by quantifiable feats is stronger than Thor. Why is this debatable? Glads isn't always at high confidence or strength in comics.
I realize this is all pointless however. You make shit up on the spot, think Gladiator is somehow noticeably stronger than Thor at some made up level. So I'm done.Present some comic evidence or concede. I'm going to attempt to avoid debating you unless it's a battlezone or something.
And what did I make up? Everything I said was based off of something.
Originally posted by WodensonThere was a thread here not to long ago as to who can palm Thor's hammer swing with one hand. Nearly everyone here said Glads can do it.
Gladiator is not stronger than an Enchanter.Edit: Not letting me upload an image this time. It's of Magnir no-selling a two-handed swing from Thor's hammer. A feat Gladiator could never equal.
Originally posted by h1a8
Official Handbooks (not any handbook) ARE based on both comics and writer's opinions. But there are errors. That is why we can use them if there is no contradicting evidence in comics.A portion could mean anything, it could mean 1/3, 1/4, etc. Without the Odin power both Heimdall and Thor are stronger than Odin. Gladiator did come close to knocking him out. A few more blows Thor would have been out. What comic did you read? An average Glads is peers with Thor in strength but certainly not a high confidence Glads. Yes Heimdalls durability was greater than Glads. But durability is durability and strength is strength. I just disagree with using someone elses feats to credit another character. Odin never shown that type of physical strength and durability against physical force like Heimdall showed (Heimdall didn't show a lot of strength though).
High confidence Glads by quantifiable feats is stronger than Thor. Why is this debatable? Glads isn't always at high confidence or strength in comics.And what did I make up? Everything I said was based off of something.
so what you are trying to say is that odin (just PRIOR to the odin power being bequeathed to him by his brothers) was not as strong as gladiator? is that correct? because otherwise, i'm not understanding how you are viewing odin MINUS the odin-power when they are essentially inseperable.
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Name one physical unamped feat that Odin has that puts him over Gladiator. You just want everyone to lose to Sky-fathers, because Hulk got owned.
So since Hulk lifting feats>>Zeus he should have beat him huh or did Hulk lose because he was facing a skyfather. Think for a bit about this, a Skyfather vs. Herald.
glads punching power would be roughly related to speed x strength.
why is it hard to imagine that his punches would be more powerful than a baseline strength odin? if you don't agree that an extremely confident gladiator is stronger than an unamped odin...surely gladiator's speed would even up (or exceed) the punching power at the very least. besides, how would odin even land a single blow on someone as fast as gladiator?
Gladiator couldn't palm-stop a two-handed swing. There's a difference. Another Enchanter, Enrakt, physically manhandled Thor in a later issue. Gladiator cannot do these things. Give it up.
Official Handbooks (not any handbook) ARE based on both comics and writer's opinions.
The 60 ton ranking was based primarily on ONE opinion, and it was Peter Sanderson's. He also said that Odin couldn't move planets, read minds, or time-travel.
There is no basis in comics for any of this. Quite the contrary. Opinions are worth nothing unless they see print. And I mean canon print, not handbooks.
I just disagree with using someone elses feats to credit another character. Odin never shown that type of physical strength and durability against physical force like Heimdall showed (Heimdall didn't show a lot of strength though).
In THOR #351, Odin withstood a blow from Surtur, wielding Twilight, which shook the Nine Worlds. It was Surtur's best swing.
i can accept glads being stronger than odin just before he received the odin-power. if i remember that simonson arc correctly, he was a relatively older asgardian when he got the power, who was in all probability past his prime. the odin-power though is inseperable from current odin. there is no 'odin-powerless' odin. there is just odin WITH the odin-power and that would place him light years above glads by definition.
Originally posted by wildernesss
glads punching power would be roughly related to speed x strength.
You'd think so, but this is not the case. Otherwise he'd dominate Thor and the like, which he doesn't do.
besides, how would odin even land a single blow on someone as fast as gladiator? [/B]
The same way Thor does, only easier.
