Originally posted by h1a8
Official Handbooks (not any handbook) ARE based on both comics and writer's opinions. But there are errors. That is why we can use them if there is no contradicting evidence in comics.
Handbooks have outright made shit up and directly contradicted comics. This is particularly the case with Odin and the bio in which the 60 ton ranking originated in. They are pointless as evidence of actual power levels.
Originally posted by h1a8
A portion could mean anything, it could mean 1/3, 1/4, etc. Without the Odin power both Heimdall and Thor are stronger than Odin.
It was clear that Heimdall was intended to have a small portion of Odin's power. Hence the inclusion of the word "only". Besides, Heimdall was empowered by a noticeably weakened Odin.
Without the Odin Power, Odin would be powerless similar to how Gladiator would be powerless without the energy that empowers him. Stupid argument is stupid.
Originally posted by h1a8
Gladiator did come close to knocking him out. A few more blows Thor would have been out.
Masterson claimed he was sore, which is understandable after getting struck in quick concession by an enraged peer trying to kill you. There wasn't any indication that he was about to black out however.
Be more specific. If Gladiator kept pounding away, it's entirely possible that he could have knocked Eric out. It's also entirely possible that if Masterson pounded on Gladiator with a few hammer strikes, he'd beat him to death.
Originally posted by h1a8
What comic did you read? An average Glads is peers with Thor in strength but certainly not a high confidence Glads.
So who gets to decide what's an average Gladiator? You? Gladiator was described as possessing near infinite strength or whatever bullshit you get hard over in his battle with Masterson. Under three different pens, it was made clear that Thor is at bare minimum a peer of Gladiator's strength wise.
I've already explained how the confidence factor works. Just because he has a bigger bulge on a certain day doesn't mean he gets more powerful. He always operates at optimal efficiency, but gets weaker the less confident he gets.
Originally posted by h1a8
Yes Heimdalls durability was greater than Glads. But durability is durability and strength is strength. I just disagree with using someone elses feats to credit another character. Odin never shown that type of physical strength and durability against physical force like Heimdall showed (Heimdall didn't show a lot of strength though).
😬
Clearly when a character no sells punches in comic, most of the time writers aren't trying to illustrate a noticeable strength edge.
That's not an argument. Heimdall was noticeably less more powerful than Odin. Hence whatever he does, Odin can accomplish far more easily.
Originally posted by h1a8
High confidence Glads by quantifiable feats is stronger than Thor. Why is this debatable? Glads isn't always at high confidence or strength in comics.
Like what? Busting a planet of unknown size? I honestly wouldn't be surprised with you.
And if that is the case, here are some of Thor's more notable feats:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/AplanetBuster3.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WithstandsNeutronStar1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WithstandsNeutronStar2.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ResistsGraviton1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ResistsGraviton2.jpg
Originally posted by h1a8
And what did I make up? Everything I said was based off of something.
You pull shit out of your ass constantly.
So are you going to post some evidence or concede? If not, let's agree to a battle zone at the end of the month.
Originally posted by Wodenson
Gladiator couldn't palm-stop a two-handed swing. There's a difference. Another Enchanter, Enrakt, physically manhandled Thor in a later issue. Gladiator cannot do these things. Give it up.The 60 ton ranking was based primarily on ONE opinion, and it was Peter Sanderson's. He also said that Odin couldn't move planets, read minds, or time-travel.
There is no basis in comics for any of this. Quite the contrary. Opinions are worth nothing unless they see print. And I mean canon print, not handbooks.
In THOR #351, Odin withstood a blow from Surtur, wielding Twilight, which shook the Nine Worlds. It was Surtur's best swing.
I know I have already said this but this guy is good. I think we have found the person to take Rage place as the person with Thor knowledge.
Originally posted by carver9
Post the first punch then. Let's see what Masterson say while struggling to get on his feat.
A speeding Gladiator strikes Masterson:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator3.jpg
The first punch.
Gladiator lands a blow when Masterson relaxes:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator4.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator5.jpg
The second punch. Doesn't even come close to fitting your description:
Originally posted by carver9
Well, Gladiator did hit Masterson with a single punch that was strong enough to take him out of the fight (stated that he couldn't even hardly stand after the blow). That was the first punch that was thrown during that fight and Masterson was out.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
A speeding Gladiator strikes Masterson:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator3.jpgThe first punch.
Gladiator lands a blow when Masterson relaxes:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator4.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator5.jpgThe second punch. Doesn't even come close to fitting your description:
He looks pretty staggered to me.
Originally posted by carver9
No... just no.
I agree with Carver, Gladiator wouldn't even be able to budge Odin.
Originally posted by carver9
He looks pretty staggered to me.
At least you can admit when you're wrong.
It hurt him, but I'd wager good money if they traded bodies, the outcome would be the same. They were more or less equal strength wise but Masterson was clumsy, hesitant, and whiny. He was no warrior.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I agree with Carver, Gladiator wouldn't even be able to budge Odin.At least you can admit when you're wrong.
It hurt him, but I'd wager good money if they traded bodies, the outcome would be the same. They were more or less equal strength wise but Masterson was clumsy, hesitant, and whiny. He was no warrior.
I'm not saying that I was wrong... Gladiator punches did some serious damage to Masterson, especially during the end.
I don't think Masterson punches would do the same to Gladiator imo. His blasting powerr (while Gladiator was aware) bounced off of Gladiator chest like he threw tissue paper at him.
Originally posted by carver9
I'm not saying that I was wrong... Gladiator punches did some serious damage to Masterson, especially during the end.
😂
I guess it's my fault for giving you the benefit of the doubt. Let's recap. Here's what you said:
Originally posted by carver9
Well, Gladiator did hit Masterson with a single punch that was strong enough to take him out of the fight (stated that he couldn't even hardly stand after the blow). That was the first punch that was thrown during that fight and Masterson was out.
Here's what happened:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator4.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator5.jpg
You were wrong. Are you surgically attached to his purple testicles? If not, why would you go so far as to make yourself seem mentally challenged just to make Gladiator look better than he actually is?
In the end, Masterson was once again hurt, but he wasn't about to black out or anything of the sort:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator6.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator7.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator8.jpg
Originally posted by carver9
I don't think Masterson punches would do the same to Gladiator imo. His blasting powerr (while Gladiator was aware) bounced off of Gladiator chest like he threw tissue paper at him.
Unfortunately, I disagree greatly. Tissue paper can hurt Kallark? What kind of fan are you?
For the record, Masterson doesn't know how to properly utilize the hammer as illustrated in his battle with Ronan:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DefeatsRonan1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DefeatsRonan2.jpg
If that was the true Thor, it'd be similar to this:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DefeatsGladiator9.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DefeatsGladiator10.jpg
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
😂I guess it's my fault for giving you the benefit of the doubt. Let's recap. Here's what you said:
Here's what happened:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator4.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator5.jpgYou were wrong. Are you surgically attached to his purple testicles? If not, why would you go so far as to make yourself seem mentally challenged just to make Gladiator look better than he actually is?
In the end, Masterson was once again hurt, but he wasn't about to black out or anything of the sort:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator6.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator7.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/MastersonThorvsGladiator8.jpgUnfortunately, I disagree greatly. Tissue paper can hurt Kallark? What kind of fan are you?
For the record, Masterson doesn't know how to properly utilize the hammer as illustrated in his battle with Ronan:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DefeatsRonan1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DefeatsRonan2.jpgIf that was the true Thor, it'd be similar to this:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DefeatsGladiator9.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DefeatsGladiator10.jpg
So Masterson wasn't hurt by Gladiator punches? Masterson didn't look like he was struggling to get up?
I never said that Masterson was as good as Thor but their durability was pretty much equal.
As for the scans of the Thor and Gladiator fight, no need to respond to that since it wasn't the real Glads. If it was the real one, Thor probably would have gotten the Masterson treatment.
That blast that Masterson shot at Gladiator bounced completely off of him.
Originally posted by Wodenson
At the time Odin gave Heimdall the Odin-Power, his power had ebbed to such a point that he was experiencing seizures. Odin said he may have needed years of Odin-Sleep to recover his power.
Correct! It isn't. I don't go by characters words but what is shown on panel. If I did then I'll accept that Sentry=Galactus.
So Eric being physically manhandled by Heimdall, with a clear admission that he couldn't win, isn't evidence that an Odin-Powered being is stronger than Thor. Got it.
Comics don't work that way. A character has full abilities in a fight unless they are portrayed (by narration or statements) to be weakened. Almost like a cartoon getting blown up and have bandages on but in the next scene they are as good as new. This is moot anyway since my point is that Juggs is invulnerable and not necessarily stronger than Thor even if he beats him down.
Especially since Thor was weakened when Juggernaut beat him down. In other words, not the same thing.
If mangog had no other feats of strength then yes, him not knocking Thor out does mean he is not stronger. Mangog mostly shown was durability. His strength, as shown from other feats, I would say was probably twice that of Thor's at most.
So if Mangog hit Thor and didn't knock him out, you'd say that he was not stronger than Gladiator? I just want to know who I'm arguing against here.
Originally posted by h1a8
Correct! It isn't. I don't go by characters words but what is shown on panel. If I did then I'll accept that Sentry=Galactus.
If Galactus was being manhandled by Sentry, and Galactus admitted that he couldn't beat Sentry, you wouldn't accept this as proof of superiority?
Comics don't work that way.
I know how comics work.
A character has full abilities in a fight unless they are portrayed (by narration or statements) to be weakened.
You mean like when Thor stated that his defeated condition was due to his bouts of weakness, and not the Juggernaut?
If mangog had no other feats of strength then yes, him not knocking Thor out does mean he is not stronger. Mangog mostly shown was durability.
Just to clarify: If Mangog dominated Thor, but did not land a finishing blow, you'd consider him weaker than Gladiator?
His strength, as shown from other feats, I would say was probably twice that of Thor's at most.
I think you're quite a ways off the mark.
It's because of the Hanbooks.IIRCthey listed Odin tobe Class 70 and Zeus to be Class 90,unamped. Which makes perfect sense IMHO since Thor should be the strongest Asgardian with Class 100 and Hercules the strongest Olympian with Class 100.
As Skyfather they should, however, be able to amp their stats to 100+ with ease.
AndI know that a lot of people hate the Handbooks but honestly, I like them and think they are quite accurate and unbiased, even if I disagree with some things. The comic writers are more inconsistent then the people who wrote those books ^^.
