Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What does that make the rest of the Batfamily then...? Batpussies?
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
^ Gladly.Not sure where you're getting this "narrow ledge" argument from. I mean, c'mon. Considering Batman is a phenomenal athelete and has grappling hooks as well as intimate knowledge of Gotham City, the idea of a fighting on a precarious location such as that seriously hindering him is ridiculous. Deathstroke was and is physically superior to Batman, which enabled him to beat the shit out of Batman and leave him KTFO where as Slade just had an injured arm.
Twisting this into some kind of excuse for Batman only for Steve Rogers' benefit to discredit Deathstroke is disingenuous.
i pretty much agree with this. to me, it seemed that ds wasn't all that interested intially in the fight, but bats sort of kept picking away at him until he got po'd and decided it was time to end things. bats seemed to surprise him with that last shot through the glass, but i agree jake--ds was pretty clearly depicted as well above bats--at least in that encounter.
could cap leave bats laying like that so quickly? i'm not so sure about that.... i'd take cap over bats in straight h2h for the solid majority, but i i think this is a pretty damn good fight.
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
In my opinion he less durable then lot of the Bat Family based off his abilities. Durability the thing that holds him back the most, and is the reason Batman will always have his number. He fast, agile, skilled, but he seem to have inability to wistand nearly as much punishment as DD or Batman .
Oh, of course he's not on Batman's level.
But his durability is insane using Batfamily's standards imo... Luthor pumped on venom gassed Drake, Huntress, Dick and Cass and one-shotted all of them then with Huntress' staff. Excluding Nightwing. Lex beat the shit out of him and was surprised he was still standing despite the gas and superhuman blows...
Granted, eventually he got KO'd.
Originally posted by leonidas
i pretty much agree with this. to me, it seemed that ds wasn't all that interested intially in the fight, but bats sort of kept picking away at him until he got po'd and decided it was time to end things. bats seemed to surprise him with that last shot through the glass, but i agree jake--ds was pretty clearly depicted as well above bats--at least in that encounter.could cap leave bats laying like that so quickly? i'm not so sure about that.... i'd take cap over bats in straight h2h for the solid majority, but i i think this is a pretty damn good fight.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Oh, of course he's not on Batman's level.But his durability is insane using Batfamily's standards imo... Luthor pumped on venom gassed Drake, Huntress, Dick and Cass and one-shotted all of them then with Huntress' staff. Excluding Nightwing. Lex beat the shit out of him and was surprised he was still standing despite the gas and superhuman blows...
Granted, eventually he got KO'd.
Then there been plenty of times were he taken out by mere slam into TV like against DS. He has some very high showings, but the majority of the time his durability seem to be potray far lower then his other attributes. He consistently has been less then impressive with his durability in my opinion. I think character like DD damage soak is much more impressive then Dicks.
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Then there been plenty of times were he taken out by mere slam into TV like against DS. He has some very high showings, but the majority of the time his durability seem to be potray far lower then his other attributes. He consistently has been less then impressive with his durability in my opinion. I think character like DD damage soak is much more impressive then Dicks.
I agree. My point is that he's most likely the second most durable BF member. I mean, if not him than who?
Cass got one-shotted by Dick.
Huntress almost got one-shotted by a random thug.
Tim is just a teenager.
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
And Batman was? are you guys readig the same scans as me? Because batman did not want the fight anymore the Slade did. He states "talk to me wilson"
jake's right, bats was the aggressor and was at least determined NOT to let slade get away. sldae? he just wanted to be left alone. it also seemed to me bats tried to put him down and failed. that's when ds got a little more serious and pretty much kicked his arse.... least that's how it looked in my view.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Cap's reactions are at least on par with Wolverine's, and Logan can chamber and throw a punch .038 seconds. Which is 7-8 times faster than a normal humans finger tip reaction time. That means that if you were doing one of those tests on the computer where you press enter when you see a light flash, that when that light flashed... Wolverine could punch you 7-8 times full boar in the face before you could press said button. Who knows how much faster his finger tip reaction time is? Like you said, 10x human isn't above Cap. Not. Even. Close.
Can you show me a scan where it has Logan throwing a punch in that time?
How did one figure that caps reflexes are at least on par with wolverines? How can that be confirmed? Also how is 7-8 times finger tip reaction interpreted as faster than 10 times human reaction? If slade can(at his lowest) react 10 times faster than a human, why wouldnt someone figure that that mean ANY type of human reaction?
Originally posted by leonidas
jake's right, bats was the aggressor and was at least determined NOT to let slade get away. sldae? he just wanted to be left alone. it also seemed to me bats tried to put him down and failed. that's when ds got a little more serious and pretty much kicked his arse.... least that's how it looked in my view.
It's wishful thinking on the Marvel side to think Cap could ever dispense with Batman with such ease.
Originally posted by leonidas
jake's right, bats was the aggressor and was at least determined NOT to let slade get away. sldae? he just wanted to be left alone. it also seemed to me bats tried to put him down and failed. that's when ds got a little more serious and pretty much kicked his arse.... least that's how it looked in my view.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
And it wasn't the only time that's happened. In their next big encounter Slade knocked down Batman a few times while he was heavily distracted, Batman basically only took him down that time because Slade wasn't taking him seriously and because Batman is a stubborn SOB. The implication was that he could have killed Batman without a terrible amount of difficulty if he'd been pursuing that goal.It's wishful thinking on the Marvel side to think Cap could ever dispense with Batman with such ease.
QFT
Originally posted by Omega VisionIt's wishful thinking on the Marvel side to think Cap could ever dispense with Batman with such ease.
First of all its ever silly to deduce Cap vs Bat is the same at Slade vs Cap.
Second what Slade has done to Batman. Cap has done to Daredevil.
By that logic I can say it's wishful thinking on the DC side to think that Slade could ever dispense Daredevil with such ease since he has struggled with Nightwing/Cass in the past before.
Or its like me saying since Slade couldn't dispense Azrael easily and they stalemated he could never dispense USAgent easily as Cap has done.
This quantification of yours does not hold any water.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
First of all its ever silly to deduce Cap vs Bat is the same at Slade vs Cap.
Second what Slade has done to Batman. Cap has done to Daredevil.By that logic I can say it's wishful thinking on the DC side to think that Slade could ever dispense Daredevil with such ease since he has struggled with Nightwing/Cass in the past before.
Or its like me saying since Slade couldn't dispense Azrael easily and they stalemated he could never dispense USAgent easily as Cap has done.
This quantification of yours does not hold any water.
Daredevil is not Batman's equal. Cass is Matt's superior. Batman's superior too in terms of h/h.
He doesn't struggle with Dick, the majority of his fights with Dick have either ended with Dick being dismantled rather quickly or with Dick being an annoyance and testing Slade's patience while Slade tries to do his job.
He fought Azrael in a sword fight, Azrael's forte is swordplay. Cap or USAgent would have lost to Azrael in a sword fight.
Heck by your logic the fact that Batman a non enhanced fighter can take down Slade and then KO him with a rifle.
Or in the first fight even though Slade won, lets face it. It wasn't easy since Slade was hurt to the point that non-enhanced fighter who has had his hands tied was putting the pain on Slade.
By this quantification I can say now imagine a enhanced fighter like Cap. If Batman can hurt him this badly in there initial fight to even beat him on his good day.
Imagine Cap vs Slade.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Why isn't it? Batman and Cap are peers in skill and most stats. Cap is Batman's superior in stamina and HF but in terms of strength feats and speed feats they're about even.Daredevil is not Batman's equal. Cass is Matt's superior. Batman's superior too in terms of h/h.
He doesn't struggle with Dick, the majority of his fights with Dick have either ended with Dick being dismantled rather quickly or with Dick being an annoyance and testing Slade's patience while Slade tries to do his job.
He fought Azrael in a sword fight, Azrael's forte is swordplay. Cap or USAgent would have lost to Azrael in a sword fight.
In strength feats/Durability feats Cap is Slades better or equal by feats and skill probably as well. Batman is more akin to Daredevil. This next logic I don't agree with but I'll use it since your being baised IMO. Here goes Shang Chi/Danny are Batman's superior. And Daredevil has held his own with Danny every time. Thus Daredevil is better then Batman. Again I don't agree with this but I'm using your level of biased logic.
Dick/Cass has given him trouble as Batman and many others have. Now imagine how a superior enhanced version of Batman will do against Slade. Again your silly quantification logic.
Now I use a biased view to counter your biased view.
The truth of the matter is I view Batman/Cass/Daredevil/Shang very close to one another and it could go either way(despite what the fanboys think.) With Cap/Slade close and could go either way as well.
But your biased views with you illogical quantification's are absurd.
As far as Azrael goes...
He did as good against Slade due to his stats; his actual swordplay skills are pretty much him hacking and slashing using his overpowering strength against opponents instead of finesse and technique (though he can deflect bullets with swords). Deathstroke also had no qualms with Az and was instead on a contract he deemed more important than fighting Azrael. Furthermore, considering Batman believed that given proper training and if he wasn't as unhinged, JPV could be his superior, its not a low end or bad showing for Slade. Azrael at the end of his career would probably beat Cap, too, considering he beat Batman and no sold his punches in the process.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
As far as Azrael goes...He did as good against Slade due to his stats; his actual swordplay skills are pretty much him hacking and slashing using his overpowering strength against opponents instead of finesse and technique (though he can deflect bullets with swords). Deathstroke also had no qualms with Az and was instead on a contract he deemed more important than fighting Azrael. Furthermore, considering Batman believed that given proper training and if he wasn't as unhinged, JPV could be his superior, its not a low end or bad showing for Slade. Azrael at the end of his career would probably beat Cap, too, considering he beat Batman and no sold his punches in the process.
Your opinion is noted.
But obviously my point with Omega Vision flew over your head as to why I brought him up with silly A vs B against C type logic. Besides both Cap or Slade would probably defeat Az as well. Since you say Az would probably beat Cap. Azreal for sure is impressive for what he did to Bruce. But Bruce is not Steve and Steve has done his own to characters like Daredevil, Ironfist, USAgent etc etc.
And if you say Slade can but Cap can't. Then I will most likely disagree with you but so be it.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Your opinion is noted.But obviously my point with Omega Vision flew over your head as to why I brought him up with silly A vs B against C type logic. Besides both Cap or Slade would probably defeat Az as well. Since you say Az would probably beat Cap.
And if you say Slade can but Cap can't. Then I will most likely disagree with you but so be it.
Depends on the time-frame and which Azrael they wind up facing. His gear, persona, and attributes shifted through out his career. Slade would have a tough time with pre-death JPV, too, but then again, his physical superiority over Batman is noted and I'm of the opinion that Slade, physically, in more formidable than Steve Rogers, who in turn is more formidable than Batman.
We'll likely disagree, but there you have it.